Woman shot when "gun discharges" in gun shop

[Motasyco]

Another case of a gun discharging and killing someone. It says a male relative was handling the gun "when it discharged". It's always the gun's fault.

Police: Woman fatally shot at Pa. gun shop - Yahoo! News

[MattCary]

"Police are investigating the shooting."

No doubt. WTH was someone doing handling a loaded gun in a gun store?

[JAB]

Very sad. I've been around guns and have shot them for most of my life. However, one of the main reasons I finally got off my duff three years ago and got my carry permit (after years of 'meaning to do it') was my fear of seeing my wife or another loved one killed in front of me and being powerless to do anything about it. God, if I accidentally/negligently killed someone I loved - with the very type of tool I carry to help me protect them - then I'm not sure what I would do.

[Guest clownsdd]

The comments on the article are interesting.

[Caster]

I noticed one day at the gun shop I usually trade with, the guy behind the counter will check the weapon before he hands it to you to look at, then he'll check it again before it goes back under the glass. Some might say excessive? Not in the slightest. I applaud anyone's efforts to be safer than safe;)

As for the this instance, I have three Q's

*Why was it loaded?

*Why was proper muzzle discipline not being observed?

*Why was his booger hook on the bang switch?

Had the idiot done the last two like he SHOULD have done, the lady would be still be alive loaded or not. I know this guy must feel horrible, AS HE SHOULD!, but that's what you get for being an idiot. He did an idiots days work and got paid an idiots wage. I 'm so very sorry the poor lady had to pay the price.

This should be a lesson to all of us. Even the ones of us that take discipline very seriously. There should never be a time (other than a defense situation) where the muzzle of our weapon should cross flesh...EVER..EVER..EVER. And, we can never say it enough, preach it enough, remind ourselves of it enough. This ain't no video game, there's no reset or health packs or second lives.

[Jonnin]

Or, caster, he used this "accident" to do away with her. You never know, its been tried before. I had more questions than you did... where did the ammo come from? Why did the clerk allow him to load it or point it at someone? What are the odds of a fatal hit by accident, or even a hit upon another person, if you do a probability cone off his general arm direction as he"accidentally" fired it? Why are they doing an autopsy, cause of death is pretty darn clear, she was shot and stuff? Everything about this sounds fishy, but that may just be sensationalistic reporting. I do not know whch is worse, the stupidity required to have an accident like this (takes breaking about 10 common sense rules, from waving a gun around to having a loaded gun to touching the trigger and more) or trying to fake an accident to murder someone. Both are pretty bad options.

[Caster]

^^^This is true.

[eapking]

I got $10 on they (victim & relative) brought in what they thought was an empty 9mm for trade or sale and had an ND.

[vontar]

I got $10 on they (victim & relative) brought in what they thought was an empty 9mm for trade or sale and had an ND.

That crossed my mind as well instead of the gun shop handing them a loaded gun.

[Guest worshipviolin]

I got $10 on they (victim & relative) brought in what they thought was an empty 9mm for trade or sale and had an ND.

I'd say that this is much more likely than a store owner handing customers a loaded gun. A local store here has a sign on the door that says that loaded guns are not allowed inside the store for "insurance reasons". I can't hardly blame him for the sign. I can only imagine how many times a gun store owner would see people recklessly handling loaded guns, pointing them every which direction while they show off their EDC to other customers, etc. I see people in stores all of the time doing this with unloaded guns thus proving that they do ignore the most basic rules (treat every gun as if it is loaded & don't point that thing at anything you are not ready to blow away). I recently saw a man, who was looking at a pistol, aim it downward toward the glass display in front of him, not realizing that he was pointing it right at the store owner's upper thigh. The owner, however, did realize where the dummy was aiming and moved several steps to the side.

[Guest WingMan380]

Caster......"booger hook on the bang switch". Love that one!!!

Did you notice in the article that it states (and I quote) "....and there's been no ruling on the cause or manner of her death."

I think the cause and manner of death was the fact that she was the recipient of a 9mm round. I figured that one out and I'm not a doctor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express one night!

All joking aside, I do hate that her life was cut short by someone being an idiot. She did not deserve that at all!

[Guest WyattEarp]

Or, caster, he used this "accident" to do away with her. You never know, its been tried before. I had more questions than you did... where did the ammo come from? Why did the clerk allow him to load it or point it at someone? What are the odds of a fatal hit by accident, or even a hit upon another person, if you do a probability cone off his general arm direction as he"accidentally" fired it? Why are they doing an autopsy, cause of death is pretty darn clear, she was shot and stuff? Everything about this sounds fishy, but that may just be sensationalistic reporting. I do not know whch is worse, the stupidity required to have an accident like this (takes breaking about 10 common sense rules, from waving a gun around to having a loaded gun to touching the trigger and more) or trying to fake an accident to murder someone. Both are pretty bad options.

this may shed some more light on the situation.

UPDATE(5): Woman killed at Adams Co. gun shop, photo included - CBS 21 News - Breaking news, sports and weather for the Harrisburg -York -Lancaster -Lebanon Pennsylvania area

There are still questions surrounding the shooting death of a woman inside an Adams County gun shop.

It was her husband holding the gun when it fired; the main question is was this an intentional shooting?

Police say they are still investigating, trying to figure out if this was intentional or just mishandling of the gun.

The woman was in the gun shop looking to buy her own pistol when she was shot by her husband.

61-year-old Beverly Klepic of Harrisburg was inside Miller’s Munitions with her husband Sunday afternoon. It's believed Klepic wanted a Kel-Tec 9 mm pistol, one similar to her husband's.

In front of the shop owner the husband got out his own loaded gun. It fired, hitting Klepic.

“We cannot come out and say if it was an accident or anything like that, we have to keep an open mind with this investigation,†explained State Police Corporal Tom Pinkerton. “What we know is at best it was a careless handling of a firearm.â€

Klepic was flown from the Huntington Township store to the hospital where she died.

Once police finish their investigation it will be handed over to the Adams County District Attorney. He will then decide what, if any, charges should be filed.

“We can definitely say he was handling the firearm inside the store,†Pinkerton added. “There's no indication he was testing/test-firing, the only thing he was doing was handling it.â€

An autopsy is scheduled for Tuesday and those results will then go to the Adams County DA.

[analog_kidd]

I admire gun shops that check the chamber every time they touch the gun, including just before they hand it off, and just after they get it handed back, even if it never left their sight. Always makes me feel like they put safety first. It's a good habit for them to be in.

When I'm looking at a gun in the store, I always ask if it's OK to dry fire it, then if they say it's OK, I always aim it away from people before pulling the trigger. I don't care how many people just checked it, I always assume the gun is magic and can make bullets appear out of nowhere and load them by itself.

[Retired Navy GMC]

It is amazing to me the number of people that do not practice safe firearm handling. We have a sign in the front window that is very clear to see that states that the store is HCP friendly, however, we ask that if someone is bringing in a firearm to trade, sell, or get a holster for, that they ensure it is clear before entering the store. You would be amazed how many people have come into the store looking for a holster; pull out a loaded firearm from a pocket. Some have even been offended when we ask them to go outside to clear it. Just because they have a HCP doesn't mean that they are exempt from practicing gun safety.

[Jonnin]

pretty much has to be intentional. You cant fire a 15 pound 2 inch long pull trigger pull pistol by accident, you just cant. Which describes all of the KT 9mms, only their rifles and big stuff has a short trigger. Additionally the design isnt going to fire from anything else, its stripped down to be a bare bones design and there is nothing else that will do it.

[McAllyn]

After I sincerely say that I am truly sorry she had to pay for another person's idiocy, I'd like to add at least it was only a 9MM. If had been a .45, everyone in the store would have died.

Mac

[LagerHead]

I admire gun shops that check the chamber every time they touch the gun, including just before they hand it off, and just after they get it handed back, even if it never left their sight. Always makes me feel like they put safety first. It's a good habit for them to be in.

When I'm looking at a gun in the store, I always ask if it's OK to dry fire it, then if they say it's OK, I always aim it away from people before pulling the trigger. I don't care how many people just checked it, I always assume the gun is magic and can make bullets appear out of nowhere and load them by itself.

You got that right. There is no such thing as overdoing it when it comes to gun safety. Especially when it is my life or my loved one's you have in your hands.

[JAB]

Why are they doing an autopsy, cause of death is pretty darn clear, she was shot and stuff?

If you die outside of a hospital, etc. then Tennessee law requires that an autopsy be done unless you are under a doctor's care (I forget the correct wording.) In other words, technically even if someone dies at home of, say, terminal cancer after a long battle with same the law requires an autopsy unless that person has hospice (which is considered to be 'under a doctor's care) or something similar.

Further, it could be that an autopsy will find that the shot fired was not, in and of itself, fatal. Could be that she suffered what should have been a non-life threatening injury but died of shock, a heart attack or something along those lines. I guess that would make a difference in the husband's trial, if there is one.

pretty much has to be intentional. You cant fire a 15 pound 2 inch long pull trigger pull pistol by accident, you just cant. Which describes all of the KT 9mms, only their rifles and big stuff has a short trigger. Additionally the design isnt going to fire from anything else, its stripped down to be a bare bones design and there is nothing else that will do it.

Heh, while the P11 trigger pull does feel like it is '15 pounds and 2 inches long', for the past, several years they have had (iirc) an 8 pound pull, according to Kel Tec. I know that the one I had was so stiff, however, that my brother in law (who has plenty of experience with firearms) started looking for the safety the first time he tried to pull the trigger on the one I had (it was so stiff that he thought it had a manual safety that was engaged.) I've never fired a PF9 but it is supposed to have the same trigger setup as my P3AT which is about a five or six pound pull. You are right in that both are pretty long pulls and - being DAO - aren't any more likely to be 'accidentally' pulled than a DA revolver.

That assumes, however, that he hasn't done a 'paper clip mod' or otherwise modified the trigger pull to be lighter/shorter. If he did, I imagine that will open a whole new can of worms.

Then, again, the story says that the lady wanted a Kel Tec 9mm, one similar to her husband's. Given that new stories sometimes get things 'confused' it could well be that her husband's pistol is some other type that is similar to a Kel Tec 9mm, which is what she wanted.

Edited August 23, 2011 by JAB

[Guest WingMan380]

I covered this story in my morning talk show.
Caster I hope you don't mind I quoted you in the show.

[Caster]

Woot! I'm famous now!

[Guest nysos]

I admire gun shops that check the chamber every time they touch the gun, including just before they hand it off, and just after they get it handed back, even if it never left their sight. Always makes me feel like they put safety first. It's a good habit for them to be in.

Yep, I was looking at a gun at a retail chain the other day (I am sure it is policy with a larger company, but still). The guy behind the counter checked the chamber, handed it to me, I then checked the chamber again (while checking grip, site picture etc. - I always aim at the ground when doing so as well). Upon handing it back, he dropped the mag, checked that nothing got squeezed in there, and then checked the chamber again before locking it up. 2 thumbs up in my book.

I have heard a few times of people getting ridiculed by someone in a store, for checking the firearm even after just being handed it by the clerk that just checked it. I always double check it, and have never had any cruel words said to me for it. Some people just don't give firearms the respect they deserve.

[monkeylizard]

After I sincerely say that I am truly sorry she had to pay for another person's idiocy, I'd like to add at least it was only a 9MM. If had been a .45, everyone in the store would have died.

Mac

Right. And if it had been a .22 or .380 she would have had a nice bruise to show for her troubles.