self-defense insurance

[Guest D Mason]

Looking for self-defense insurance, Does anyone know of a good plan?

[Makiaveli]

From what I've read here, unless you are convicted in a shooting, you can't be sued. So the best insurance is making sure you know the laws of self-defense and apply them.

If you mean actual insurance, as in paying premiums, then sorry not a clue

[Raoul]

Maybe some type of umbrella liability insurance. I don't know of any specific policy plan for what you have in mind.

[Guest D Mason]

I noticed the NRA has a insurance plan but I don't know much about them. Just wondering if many gun owners have extra insurance for ccp?

[Raoul]

I noticed the NRA has a insurance plan but I don't know much about them. Just wondering if many gun owners have extra insurance for ccp?

I assume you are looking at this NRA program...link below.

NRA Endorsed Insurance Program Self-Defense Liability Coverage

[enfield]

I have a $1 million umbrella personal liability policy thru State Farm that's quite reasonable.

[Guest D Mason]

Yes it is the NRA self-Defence liability. I am sure I could not afford the $1million plan....If anyone has the NRA plan or has used it I sure would like to hear from them....Thanks for the input thus far.

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

I have a $1 million umbrella personal liability policy thru State Farm that's quite reasonable.

Whats "quite reasonable?" Can you give us a ballpark figure?

[Wazzu]

I pay about $16/month for $1million umbrella liability but it won't pay for intentional acts. When you pull the trigger, even though it may be justified, it is an intentional act.

The NRA plan will reimburse you for your legal defense in a criminal case if you are acquitted by reason of self defense. It will pay for your legal defense in a civil case. (And yes, you can and probably will be sued even if you are acquitted or not even charged of a criminal offense.)

[Guest Jon]

(And yes, you can and probably will be sued even if you are acquitted or not even charged of a criminal offense.)

This.

Just because no criminal charges are filed against yyou doesn't mean the perp, or their family incase of death, can not sue you in civil court.

[Guest bkelm18]

From what I've read here, unless you are convicted in a shooting, you can't be sued.

Not true. You can still be sued.

[Jasongar8]

If you have a 1 million dollar policy, what is going to keep them from suing you for 2 million?

[cannoncocker]

If you have a 1 million dollar policy, what is going to keep them from suing you for 2 million?

Nothing. However, million dollar plus awards against individuals are extremely rare in Tennessee. And, if you purchased the right coverage, legal defense costs are not subject to the liability limit specified in the policy.

[Gophert]

Your first liability that would come into effect is the liability on your homeowners insurance. Depending on your policy, that typically starts at 100,000 and goes up. For extra protection you can go with the Umbrella Policy (extra liability) to increase your limits. Keep in mind however, that if you are convicted of a crime, the liability WILL NOT pay.

I am an insurance agent and have paid a claim on a similar situation. It was not a "loss of life" type claim, but did have an insured shoot up his next door neighbor's siding on his house. The insurance company FROWNS on these type of claims.

[Guest Jon]

Your first liability that would come into effect is the liability on your homeowners insurance. Depending on your policy, that typically starts at 100,000 and goes up. For extra protection you can go with the Umbrella Policy (extra liability) to increase your limits. Keep in mind however, that if you are convicted of a crime, the liability WILL NOT pay.

I am an insurance agent and have paid a claim on a similar situation. It was not a "loss of life" type claim, but did have an insured shoot up his next door neighbor's siding on his house. The insurance company FROWNS on these type of claims.

lol Im sure they do. Any time I ever had to make an insurance claim my company frowned. But they still happily banked 10x more money than they ever had to pay out on me.

[Gophert]

lol Im sure they do. Any time I ever had to make an insurance claim my company frowned. But they still happily banked 10x more money than they ever had to pay out on me.

It's one thing to have a storm loss, or maybe a water loss, but shooting up your neighbors vinyl siding cause you're an idiot....not good.

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

I think this is what you are looking for, ACLDN.....the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network.

I am going to be joining this group very soon myself, cost is 85 bucks a year and IIRC 225 for a three year deal, family members can also be included. I have been looking at them for over a year and have made up my mind. Like all insurance I hope all that I ever do is PAY them.

Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc.

They will not only steer you toward good self defense lawyers in your area but will also put cash in his hand quick if you are charged in a self defense shooting. The Lawyers are members also.

They will also provide experts if needed to defend you. Massad Ayoob and Dennis Tueller along with Tom Givens of Range Master in Memphis are part of the group of experts that are involved with the network. A membership also includes some training videos.

As I said I have been reading about them for some time and will be joining but do your own research. Those that have joined have been happy. They even like the vids, so I am sold on the idea of better to have than not.

I do not work for them, I am not a Lawyer nor do I know of any cases that they have yet to be involved in.(Actually I feel is a good thing) My choice to join is based on my own research and conversations with others who have.

The USCCA (United States Concealed Carry Association) also now has an upgraded membership that includes some of the same type of benefits. While I am a member of the USCCA, their insurance program (The Defense Shield) is a new thing for them and is but a few months old so I am still watching and listening before making any upgrade to my membership. The ACLDN has been around longer and will be getting my money first, some folks have said that having both would be good but I am still contemplating that idea and waiting to see what those who join the Defense Shield have to say, being still new that has not been much as of yet.

Here is the link to their homepage, you can get a free newsletter or join the group which is a forum a lot like this one only nationwide and they do have a magazine that goes out 8 or 9 times a year. It covers all things concerning Concealed Carry and does so without advertising which I like. You do not have to buy into the insurance part to join the group.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/

Good Luck to ya

[Makiaveli]

Not true. You can still be sued.

Now of course I can't find the post where I read that. It said something to the effect that around 2006 or so a law was passed in Tn that if you weren't convicted you couldn't be sued in civil court. If I can find it I will post it.

**edit** Found a Fallguy post with the law mentioned in it...So unless I am missing something, you can be sued but if ruled justified (and I would assume not being charged criminally would help in that) you will be entitled to recover expenses etc.

39-11-622. Justification for use of force — Exceptions — Immunity from civil liability.

(a) (1) A person who uses force as permitted in §§ 39-11-611 — 39-11-614 or § 29-34-201, is justified in using such force and is immune from civil liability for the use of such force, unless:

(A)

The person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in §

39-11-106

who:

(i)

Was acting in the performance of the officer's official duties; and

(ii)

Identified the officer in accordance with any applicable law; or

(iii)

The person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer; or

(

The force used by the person resulted in property damage to or the death or injury of an innocent bystander or other person against whom the force used was not justified.

( The court shall award reasonable attorney's fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by a person in defense of any civil action brought against the person based upon the person's use of force, if the court finds that the defendant was justified in using such force pursuant to §§39-11-611 — 39-11-614 or § 29-34-201.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Makiaveli

[Guest bkelm18]

Now of course I can't find the post where I read that. It said something to the effect that around 2006 or so a law was passed in Tn that if you weren't convicted you couldn't be sued in civil court. If I can find it I will post it.

**edit** Found a Fallguy post with the law mentioned in it...

39-11-622. Justification for use of force — Exceptions — Immunity from civil liability.

(a) (1) A person who uses force as permitted in §§ 39-11-611 — 39-11-614 or § 29-34-201, is justified in using such force and is immune from civil liability for the use of such force, unless:

(A)

The person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in §

39-11-106

who:

(i)

Was acting in the performance of the officer's official duties; and

(ii)

Identified the officer in accordance with any applicable law; or

(iii)

The person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer; or

(

The force used by the person resulted in property damage to or the death or injury of an innocent bystander or other person against whom the force used was not justified.

( The court shall award reasonable attorney's fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by a person in defense of any civil action brought against the person based upon the person's use of force, if the court finds that the defendant was justified in using such force pursuant to §§39-11-611 — 39-11-614 or § 29-34-201.

That does not say you cannot be sued. Read the last part. You can still be sued, however, if you win, the other side has to pay for your defense.

[Makiaveli]

That does not say you cannot be sued. Read the last part. You can still be sued, however, if you win, the other side has to pay for your defense.

I got that and apparently was adding that while you were responding. To clarify, I read somewhere that a law was passed that you couldn't be sued if convicted etc, and several people agreed/verified it was real etc and so that was my basis. Thus I said "based on what I've read here..." That law does mean you can lose in civil court even if you aren't charged, convicted etc, but I would think that if the DA didn't press charges, it would be hard to prove you weren't justified.

Not a lawyer, and don't want to come off as if I am trying to sound like one. I do need to stop taking people's word for stuff and look it up myself before I shoot off my mouth apparently.

[Fallguy]

I got that and apparently was adding that while you were responding. To clarify, I read somewhere that a law was passed that you couldn't be sued if convicted etc, and several people agreed/verified it was real etc and so that was my basis. Thus I said "based on what I've read here..." That law does mean you can lose in civil court even if you aren't charged, convicted etc, but I would think that if the DA didn't press charges, it would be hard to prove you weren't justified.

Not a lawyer, and don't want to come off as if I am trying to sound like one. I do need to stop taking people's word for stuff and look it up myself before I shoot off my mouth apparently.

Not being criminally charged would help. It being brought before a grand jury and a No Bill being returned would be good too. But neither actually "rule" the shooting as justified. I've just sort of always figured that if either of those things happened most lawyers would not take the case...but there may always be at least one out there.

Seems like a long time ago (I think in another state even) there was a law that prevented someone from even filing a lawsuit, but it was struck down. The court said no law could bar someone access to the legal/court system.

[Fallguy]

So one thing I would like to see from any insurance like this is, to cover my expenses in defense of a civil suit, then when the shooting is ruled justified the insurance company can worry about getting the money from the person that brought the suit instead of me.

Sort of like if you have a good car insurance company and are involved in a wreck that is someone else's fault, your company will go ahead and pay to have your car fixed and then go after the other driver's insurance company.

[vontar]

I got that and apparently was adding that while you were responding. To clarify, I read somewhere that a law was passed that you couldn't be sued if convicted etc, and several people agreed/verified it was real etc and so that was my basis. Thus I said "based on what I've read here..." That law does mean you can lose in civil court even if you aren't charged, convicted etc, but I would think that if the DA didn't press charges, it would be hard to prove you weren't justified.

Not a lawyer, and don't want to come off as if I am trying to sound like one. I do need to stop taking people's word for stuff and look it up myself before I shoot off my mouth apparently.

Justification for use of force — Exceptions — Immunity from civil liability.

this has been discussed allot on the board. I don't fully remember the details but you almost need to be charged with a crime and then win. But if it was a clear Self Defense and the DA does not proceed to trial you don't get a Justification of use of force or something like that.

So what we have seen is the DA normally does not take those Self Defense cases to court so there is no "not guilty verdict" ruled to weaken the civil case.

Also I am not a lawyer and I have not stayed as a hotel in a while.

Edited August 23, 2011 by vontar