380 Question...

[dbla]

So, I just went to the gun shop... I've been looking at the Ruger LCP for an EDC gun... But I keep reading stuff about the .380 being underpowered. I went and looked at the Kel Tec PF9, and the Ruger LC9. Ideally I would like to pocket carry, just works with the way I live my life day to day, there two guns seem a little too big... and frankly I don't wanna have to go buy pants a waist size larger to fit my piece (referring to my gun here, har har) in there. Maybe there's a better way to carry a larger frame? Or is the .380 a decent round? I mean, I can't imagine someone getting hit with a .380 ACP Hydrashock round and not being phased. Any feedback?

[JimmyMac483]

I like the .380 for a small, lightweight cc gun. I don't subscribe to the theory that any round smaller that a .45 is under powered for personal defense. I have a Bersa Thunder 380cc and love it. The LCP was just a bit small for my hands and the 380cc is still small enough to fit in a pocket. I have heard good things about the LCP though.

[Guest fastbilly1]

first. i have had an LCP for about a month and love the ease of carry and concealment. secondly, IMHO i think a .380 will be enough to get a BG off of me and let me get to safety in public. i do carry a extra magazine, just in case. with all that said, i still keep a bigger gun for home defense.

food for thought a 9mm luger is 9x19

a .380 is 9x17

i cannot quote ballistics to compare

hope this helps

[MacGyver]

I pocket carry a S&W M&P340CT daily. A good J-frame might be another option for you. I'm 145lbs. and it doesn't print in my pocket.

A good holster is important when you're pocket carrying.

[JimmyMac483]

A good holster is important when you're pocket carrying.

+1

[dbla]

So, the Bersa CC would be a good pocket carry alternative to the LCP? I wouldn't be against a slightly larger gun... The PF9 and LC9 were to big IMHO for me to pocket carry. (Let's be honest, I'm young, wear tighter pants, etc etc...)

[crashgordan]

the hornady critical defense round in .380 has impressive penetration (10 inches) and is a highly consistent round with consistent opening characteristics in ballistic gel. This is the first .380 round i've personally considered a legitimate personal defense round.

worth a look....

[Dolomite_supafly]

There was a thread a while back that addressed this. Not so much from a 380 point of view but from a how effective certain calibers are.

Here is my take on it.

There are two types of incapcitation physical and psychological.

A physical incapcitation is going to be a hit to the CNS or some other immdiately vital organ like the heart. Any other hits may lead to an incapcitation but requires blood loss which can take time depending on what has been hit. A femoral artery shot takes but a few minutes to physically incapacitate while a muscle tissue wound may never physically incapacitate a person.

Psychological is when someone feels like they have been incapcitated. Not that they have sustained a hit that physically incapcitates them but something they feel should incapacitate them. I relayed a story of a guy who was shot at with a 38 caliber revolver loaded with blanks as part of training. The student fell to the ground leaving the RSO to think a live round had made it into the chamber but it didn't. The student felt he had been incapacitated so he fell to the ground unresponsive. This would be an example of a psychological incapacitation. Life experiances as well as training can affect this but no amount of training is going to affect a physical incapacitaiton.

With that being said a 380 can incapacitate, both physically and psychologically. Is it as effective as other calibers? Hard to say because every situation is different and every victim of the shooting is different.

I would not feel undergunned with a 380 but I would prefer something more. It all comes down to preference and convience. If I got tired of carrying my heavy full sized guns, which I am getting there, I wouldn't mind having a 380.

Dolomite

[MphsTiger1981]

It depends upon who you ask. Many self defense instructors feel the 9mm is the lowest end of the spectrum of handgun calibers which can effectively be relied upon for self defense. That being said, sales of .380 handguns to people who want a pocket pistol have soared over the past few years with the introduction of the LCP and some of the others patterned after the original .380 pocket pistol, the Kel-Tec P3AT. So in fact, a lot of people have purchased .380s. The 9mm pistols are just a little larger, and for some are hard to carry in the front pocket, so you lose some of the size and comfort of the .380 platform. I have had several .380 pistols, including two P3ATs and an LCP. They all worked great. I also had a PF9 and it was a great gun, but as you noticed, putting it in your pocket and walking around all day was not comfortable. If I had to carry a PF9 in the waistband or on a belt holster, why not get something a little bigger with more rounds, or larger caliber, etc.

It's all about what makes you comfortable. If you think you may need a larger gun, get a larger gun. You're the guy who has to carry it, and God forbid, you may be the guy who has to rely upon it to save your life, or someone elses.

Good luck with all that.

[dbla]

It depends upon who you ask. Many self defense instructors feel the 9mm is the lowest end of the spectrum of handgun calibers which can effectively be relied upon for self defense. That being said, sales of .380 handguns to people who want a pocket pistol have soared over the past few years with the introduction of the LCP and some of the others patterned after the original .380 pocket pistol, the Kel-Tec P3AT. So in fact, a lot of people have purchased .380s. The 9mm pistols are just a little larger, and for some are hard to carry in the front pocket, so you lose some of the size and comfort of the .380 platform. I have had several .380 pistols, including two P3ATs and an LCP. They all worked great. I also had a PF9 and it was a great gun, but as you noticed, putting it in your pocket and walking around all day was not comfortable. If I had to carry a PF9 in the waistband or on a belt holster, why not get something a little bigger with more rounds, or larger caliber, etc.

It's all about what makes you comfortable. If you think you may need a larger gun, get a larger gun. You're the guy who has to carry it, and God forbid, you may be the guy who has to rely upon it to save your life, or someone elses.

Good luck with all that.

Great thanks for the feedback, this is great.

[dbla]

There was a thread a while back that addressed this. Not so much from a 380 point of view but from a how effective certain calibers are.

Here is my take on it.

There are two types of incapcitation physical and psychological.

A physical incapcitation is going to be a hit to the CNS or some other immdiately vital organ like the heart. Any other hits may lead to an incapcitation but requires blood loss which can take time depending on what has been hit. A femoral artery shot takes but a few minutes to physically incapacitate while a muscle tissue wound may never physically incapacitate a person.

Psychological is when someone feels like they have been incapcitated. Not that they have sustained a hit that physically incapcitates them but something they feel should incapacitate them. I relayed a story of a guy who was shot at with a 38 caliber revolver loaded with blanks as part of training. The student fell to the ground leaving the RSO to think a live round had made it into the chamber but it didn't. The student felt he had been incapacitated so he fell to the ground unresponsive. This would be an example of a psychological incapacitation. Life experiances as well as training can affect this but no amount of training is going to affect a physical incapacitaiton.

With that being said a 380 can incapacitate, both physically and psychologically. Is it as effective as other calibers? Hard to say because every situation is different and every victim of the shooting is different.

I would not feel undergunned with a 380 but I would prefer something more. It all comes down to preference and convience. If I got tired of carrying my heavy full sized guns, which I am getting there, I wouldn't mind having a 380.

Dolomite

Great, this really helps.

[JimmyMac483]

So, the Bersa CC would be a good pocket carry alternative to the LCP? I wouldn't be against a slightly larger gun... The PF9 and LC9 were to big IMHO for me to pocket carry. (Let's be honest, I'm young, wear tighter pants, etc etc...)

It is definitely a good alternative for you. It is built on the Thunder 380 frame, but has thinner grips. The hammer, safety/decocker, and sights are more streamlined so that they don't catch as much on your pocket when you have to draw.

[dbla]

It is definitely a good alternative for you. It is built on the Thunder 380 frame, but has thinner grips. The hammer, safety/decocker, and sights are more streamlined so that they don't catch as much on your pocket when you have to draw.

Hmm, I'll have to make some calls, see if a shop has one I can fondle.

[Guest bkelm18]

While I do agree that .380 has the capacity to be lethal and is a decent carry caliber, I personally do not feel comfortable carrying it. A .38 Special snubby is about the minimum I personally carry.

[JimmyMac483]

Hmm, I'll have to make some calls, see if a shop has one I can fondle.

I bought mine from Guns and Leather in Greenbrier. They usually keep one or two as part of their regular stock.

[MikePapa1]

I have a Sig 238 in .380 that I regularly carry in my pocket as backup for the Sig 220 on my hip. I prefer the 220 in .45 because of the way it feels in my hand and the desire to carry the most gun I can. That beings said, I often, in a rush go out with only the .380 with no hesitation. I use the same rounds in it mentioned above and do not feel undergunned. If you can hit what you shoot, you'll be fine.

If someone tell you the .380 is underpowered and not effective for personal defense, they're probably just caliber snobs. I had a guy tell me once that the .380 was "worthless" for personal defense and "wouldn't stop anybody." I asked him if he'd have any objection then to me testing it on him to see if his theory was correct. He declined. Accuracy is the key.

[dbla]

I had a guy tell me once that the .380 was "worthless" for personal defense and "wouldn't stop anybody." I asked him if he'd have any objection then to me testing it on him to see if his theory was correct. He declined. Accuracy is the key.

Haha. That's what I was thinking.

[Guest bigbovine]

I am not big on what caliber. I am more concerned on what I will consistently carry. That said, I carry my LCP in pocket always. I used to carry various 9MM, but would find myself leaving in truck or at home depending on whether I wanted the hastle. As far as caliber is concerned for daily carry, whatever will get the bad guy off of me as fast as possible so I can retreat. If there is prior planning, and knowledge of the day, I will also carry something bigger and keep LCP as backup. The main thing is having something that will go bang. Even a .22 would work as far as I am concerned. Pain is pain, unless they are hopped up on something, then I guess you have other problems.

[Guest JMB]

Accuracy is the key.

Couldn't agree more, so you might want toget to a range and shoot whatever you are considering before you buy.

Most of the mouse guns handle poorly, and aren't pleasant to practice with. Practice being key to accuracy.

If you are young and wear your pants tight you might want to consider how quickly you can actually get the gun out of your pants if needed.

There's a reason all the gang bangers pants are hanging off their... ummm waist. just sayin

[Guest rockytop]

I had rather be shooting a 380 than throwing rocks or wet corncobs, but I just feel better safer with a Kahr PM9 or CM9 in my pocket. The PM9 is rather pricey, but my families safety is rather important too. I carry my PM9 in an Andrews pocket holster from the time I get dressed til undressing for bed without any concealment problems. However, I wear khaki's rather than jeans. You really should investigate the CM9 from Kahr. It's just as small as the PM9 and considerably cheaper.

Good luck.

[enfield]

I've been pocket-carrying a S&W j-frame in a Kramer horsehide pocket holster for many years. The holster is as durable as iron - just a little black shoe polish once a year and it looks like new.

[TNWNGR]

I have an LCP and am pleased with how it performs as well as its overall size and weight. Now, if the worst possible happened and I was forced to use lethal force would I rather have something in a larger caliber or even better gauge? You bet I would, but what will that larger piece of ordinance laying on the closet shelf instead of strapped on me do. There are times and situations where the best you can manage are an airweight J-Frame S&W or an LCP. The point is if you legally carry, then carry where legally possible.

[Guest tngw1500se]

I had an LCP and it was a great little gun. If I HAD TO carry a gun that small, an LCP would be my gun of choice. With that said, if I could carry a larger gun, the LC9 would be my 1st choice. It's about the same size as most of the 380's. Wife has one now and it's been perfect. Can't brag enough about the LC9! It's at about 300 on it's round count with zero failures. I've owned a PF9 and like the LC9 much better. I now carry a XDSC 9 but size is not an issue. I just carry it in a serpa on my belt with a shirt over it and 17 HP rounds in it. I'd carry a LC9 any day and an LCP if I had to.

[Jonnin]

So, I just went to the gun shop... I've been looking at the Ruger LCP for an EDC gun... But I keep reading stuff about the .380 being underpowered. I went and looked at the Kel Tec PF9, and the Ruger LC9. Ideally I would like to pocket carry, just works with the way I live my life day to day, there two guns seem a little too big... and frankly I don't wanna have to go buy pants a waist size larger to fit my piece (referring to my gun here, har har) in there. Maybe there's a better way to carry a larger frame? Or is the .380 a decent round? I mean, I can't imagine someone getting hit with a .380 ACP Hydrashock round and not being phased. Any feedback?

I pocket carry. You would be surprised what you can get in a pocket with some creativity. I can get my px4 storm .40 subcompact in there, and at one pont had a kel tec p-40 (same a p-11 in .40 cal) in there. Before that I carried a makarov in there. When I need it smaller I do carry a 380 (sig p238). Makarov is a bit more powerful than 380, not a lot unless you handload it, heavy but a good pocket gun. The 380 is a bit weak but the biggest problem with the caliber is many of the JHP defense ammo designs expand too fast for the light velocity to drive the expanded round deep. Ball ammo is often recommended for the 380 and that does pretty well. I personally alternate the 2 in my magazine, just to cover the basics. While it is very hard to beat a small 380 for size and pocket carry, careful study of the 9mm and .40 family will show you a number of alternative weapons that WILL fit in typical men's jeans or dress pants pockets (womens pockets are much, much smaller). I have found 6.5 X 4.5 X 1.25 or smaller frames will go nicely into most of my pockets, for reference. My next pocket gun will probably be my last; I am getting a cz rami custom made for my left handed needs as I have grown tired of the right hand issues.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I have carried 44 special revolver as well as an officer's 1911 in my rear pocket before. Most people are oblivious to their surroundings so most people will never notice.

I have made a few holsters for freinds to hide their pocket pistols. The holster looks like a wallet yet holds a pistol.

Dolomite