Should this conflict ever arise what would you do?

[Guest Jon]

Hey Jon,

don't you open carry? It won't even matter for you, you'll be shot in the back 15 times by the bad guy as soon as he enters the building. Didn't you hear?

At least that's what the critics say.......

On a more serious note. I think there are too many variables that could possibly come into play that could change the outcome. Earlier I said what I thought I would do but it's really hard to say for sure. I hope none of us are ever in that scenario to begin with. Some interesting points have been made though.

I say I oc 75% of the time. But that 75% is usually me just running out by myself real quick to a gas station or to the walmart to pick up a quick meal or something. If im going out with the family and know im going to be shopping most the day my weapon is concealed. Not because its an advantage for me one way or the other just because my 11 year old step son likes to touch my gun lol

[LawVol]

a lot of 'what ifs' here... my initial thought is to get the hell out of there. But, one factor that might make me lean toward drawing is that if you don't act immediately while the guy's focus is on the cashier, you lose what little upper hand you have. What if in the commotion to hustle your family away, the robber turns his gun toward you and says "hold it right there!" Do you keep going and hope he doesn't open fire, or do you stop? Frankly, moving fast is something I've never had any luck getting my wife and kids to do. And now that his gun is on you, you've lost your advantage in pulling your own. I just don't know that I'd be able to get my family out of harm's way quickly enough. I guess it would depend on how close we were to guy when his gun first appeared. Then again, I wouldn't want to get into a shootout with my family standing right next to me, either.

tough question.

[JayC]

In a store, with a crowd of people, and pulls a gun? Bad guy is crazy, all bets are off, standing right behind him in line... I'm going to take the tactical advantage that I have instead of hoping to move to cover of leave the building unnoticed.

[JAB]

This is an interesting discussion. My take on the scenario as posted by the OP is that there is sufficient warning/space that I and mine can hide, get away and call 911 without drawing attention to ourselves. That is exactly what I would do. I will not risk my life for that of a stranger (with the possible exception of a small child.) Sure, it might be hard to live the rest of my life thinking about that poor, murdered cashier but it would be a whole lot harder to live the rest of my life if I am dead.

I also think I have a slightly different take on protecting my family than some others. To me, protecting my family doesn't just mean ushering my wife, my mom, etc. to safety in an immediate incident. It also means being there to help care for my mom as she gets older. It means being there for my wife on a daily basis in the years to come and being around to help protect her and our home for as long as I can. No one can know how long they have but getting myself killed over a stranger for whom I honestly have no real feelings does not fit into that plan. I have a much greater responsibility to my loved ones (whether friends or family) than I do to the cashier at Walmart.

[Guest 270win]

Shoot him before he shoots me or someone close by to me. That is the goal and why I keep a 38 in my pocket. Some gang banger waving a gun pulling a robbery right by me is a threat to my life and I'm inclined to protect my life. I don't really like the idea of taking a chance with my life and giving the benefit of the doubt to a thug waving a pistol. Better safe than sorry and my life is more valuable than his if he is pulling a robbery and I'm standing right behind him/near him. Yes I have thought about that because it is common in Memphis with the thug element and how brave the thugs are and taking shots at people.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I would be a good witness, nothing else unless the bad guy begins shooting.

In shooting him you may be in the right legally, but it still doesn't prevent him or his family from finding some pro bono attorney to sue you in civil court. I know there is a law that prevents it but you still have to go before a judge in order for it to be thrown out. Perhaps the judge doesn't feel you acted how you should have and sides with the criminal's attorney allowing the civil trial to proceed. I would never trust the justice system to side with me so I would have to hire an attorney and attorneys aren't cheap.

And as OhShoot pointed out by firing at the bad guy it may cause him to escalate the situation beyond what he had intended. And if it appears that was the case I am sure the victim's attorneys would also try to blame you for escalating situation.

We have become such a litigious society that people sue over anything and everything. They even try to sue those who are not even responsible in hopes of getting a payday. I, for one, do not want to trust my life and livelihood to the system as it stands today. It is not a justice system it is only a legal system where justice rarely prevails.

Dolomite

[Guest roshambo]

Another thing to think about... You don't take the opportunity that you had to stop this criminal and decide to not do anything. He takes the money and runs out the door. Then later as you're walking out of the door he's hiding around the corner and pulls a gun on you and your family and demands money. Previously, in the store you were behind him with the perfect opportunity to end the situation and now you're the one staring down the barrel with your wife and little girl next to you. Let's escalate the scenario and say the cops pull up and he grabs your little girl and uses her as a hostage! Seriously though, this could be debated all day. It's each individual's decision on what to do and how to deal with what happens afterwards. If I am ever in the situation, I hope I choose the best course of action.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Another thing to think about... You don't take the opportunity that you had to stop this criminal and decide to not do anything. He takes the money and runs out the door. Then later as you're walking out of the door he's hiding around the corner and pulls a gun on you and your family and demands money. Previously, in the store you were behind him with the perfect opportunity to end the situation and now you're the one staring down the barrel with your wife and little girl next to you. Let's escalate the scenario and say the cops pull up and he grabs your little girl and uses her as a hostage! Seriously though, this could be debated all day. It's each individual's decision on what to do and how to deal with what happens afterwards. If I am ever in the situation, I hope I choose the best course of action.

Not likely.

I seriously doubt the criminal is going to wait around after robbing a place to get patron as they exit. Even if he does he won't stay around after the police arrive. You are a witness and it would be silly to leave the premises before you could be a good witness for the police.

When you shoot someone, even if you are 100% in the right, there are legal as well as financial ramifications. This is especially true if you are not in your residence. Even if you are trying to do the right thing it will cost you when you pull that trigger. It is just a matter of what you are risking it for. For me preventing a robbery isn't a reason for me to shoot someone but saving a life is a reason and until the bad guy shows he is going to take a life I will be a witness.

Dolomite

[Guest Victor9er]

Another thing to think about... You don't take the opportunity that you had to stop this criminal and decide to not do anything. He takes the money and runs out the door. Then later as you're walking out of the door he's hiding around the corner and pulls a gun on you and your family and demands money. Previously, in the store you were behind him with the perfect opportunity to end the situation and now you're the one staring down the barrel with your wife and little girl next to you. Let's escalate the scenario and say the cops pull up and he grabs your little girl and uses her as a hostage! Seriously though, this could be debated all day. It's each individual's decision on what to do and how to deal with what happens afterwards. If I am ever in the situation, I hope I choose the best course of action.

Highly unlikely.... how many people rob a place at gunpoint and then hang around outside the building for 20 - 30 mins waiting for someone else to come out so they can rob them too?

[Dolomite_supafly]

Highly unlikely.... how many people rob a place at gunpoint and then hang around outside the building for 20 - 30 mins waiting for someone else to come out so they can rob them too?

Beat you by seconds.

Dolomite

[gregintenn]

I do not enjoy the company of police or lawyers/judges. I wouldn't shoot unless I believed it was my/my family's only chance at survival. Furthermore, I'd have no interest in sticking around to be a witness.

[Guest 270win]

I think some people would view the proximity of a violent crime to themselves. If you are standing right by gangbanger with his 'piece' out committing robbery, that is where I am coming from to putting an end to the problem if possible. Other side of a room, parking lot, other side of a store, would I go out of my way, probably not because I don't want to put myself in danger. Someone right near me pulling a robbery is putting ME in danger and why I would possibly take the opportunity to stop the criminal so he doesn't take me out as a witness. It happens and better him than me. I'd rather shoot first to stop than wait/react for him to shoot first. It can be to late at that point and you have lost your opportunity.

[Guest Jon]

I would be a good witness, nothing else unless the bad guy begins shooting.

In shooting him you may be in the right legally, but it still doesn't prevent him or his family from finding some pro bono attorney to sue you in civil court. I know there is a law that prevents it but you still have to go before a judge in order for it to be thrown out. Perhaps the judge doesn't feel you acted how you should have and sides with the criminal's attorney allowing the civil trial to proceed. I would never trust the justice system to side with me so I would have to hire an attorney and attorneys aren't cheap.

And as OhShoot pointed out by firing at the bad guy it may cause him to escalate the situation beyond what he had intended. And if it appears that was the case I am sure the victim's attorneys would also try to blame you for escalating situation.

We have become such a litigious society that people sue over anything and everything. They even try to sue those who are not even responsible in hopes of getting a payday. I, for one, do not want to trust my life and livelihood to the system as it stands today. It is not a justice system it is only a legal system where justice rarely prevails.

Dolomite

This is my biggest fear. I know there would most likely be no criminal charges held against me but civil cases can get expensive and ugly.

I'll have to do some research to find the article, but there was a case a few years ago to where a robber broke into a home and was met by the armed homeowner who shot the perp. He perp didnt die but was in ICU for almost a month from the multiple gun shots he had received. The Perp sued the homeowner and won causing the homeowner to pay all medical fees associated with the shooting. It came out in the hundreds of thousands. My opinion is that it was a bad call on the judge but it just goes to show that it is a possibility. I dont know about anyone one else but 100k is not in my budget lol

but then again that would not stop me from emptying a clip

[clarky07]

This is my biggest fear. I know there would most likely be no criminal charges held against me but civil cases can get expensive and ugly.

I'll have to do some research to find the article, but there was a case a few years ago to where a robber broke into a home and was met by the armed homeowner who shot the perp. He perp didnt die but was in ICU for almost a month from the multiple gun shots he had received. The Perp sued the homeowner and won causing the homeowner to pay all medical fees associated with the shooting. It came out in the hundreds of thousands. My opinion is that it was a bad call on the judge but it just goes to show that it is a possibility. I dont know about anyone one else but 100k is not in my budget lol

but then again that would not stop me from emptying a clip

That's why if you are shooting at someone, it's to kill and not maim.

[Makiaveli]

That's why if you are shooting at someone, it's to kill and not maim.

His family could still sue. Never forget the lady who won her lawsuit against the furniture store due to them not controlling HER kids and she got hurt as a result....

[Guest TresOsos]

Just one other thing I would like to bring up, this scenario puts you in a public place with I would assume other people around. You are accountable for ever shot you fire and where it goes. Even if you have the drop on the perp and legally your actions would be justified. I question the wisdom of "BEING THE ONE" to start a gunfight in a public place. Simply put this has the potential to go way down hill very fast.

[Guest bkelm18]

That's why if you are shooting at someone, it's to kill and not maim.

You shoot to stop the threat. Not to kill or maim.

[Makiaveli]

You shoot to stop the threat. Not to kill or maim.

Good point. That's an example of the type of comment that can get you hauled into court and lose once you are there.

[Punisher84]

I don't worry about being sued. Can't take what I don't have. Guess most of you folks have money. Not to mention I think alot of you really overestimate the actual amount of lawsuits vs. shootings.

[Makiaveli]

I don't worry about being sued. Can't take what I don't have. Guess most of you folks have money. Not to mention I think alot of you really overestimate the actual amount of lawsuits vs. shootings.

I have a turnip, I guess they could squeeze that Seriously though, I hope one day to have enough for retirement and owing some scumbag $42 million and change would cramp that plan.

That and I wasn't just talking about civil court. A DA with a agenda and an election coming up might decide to take your innocent comment and fry you with it. Say something like " All that planning and preparation paid off" meaning the HCP and range time helped you save a life etc and they could twist that into you carrying the gun hoping to meet a bad guy and thus you weren't motivated by fear etc etc and nice knowing you and of course I will visit you....just as soon as the cat's out of the cradle

[Guest roshambo]

Highly unlikely.... how many people rob a place at gunpoint and then hang around outside the building for 20 - 30 mins waiting for someone else to come out so they can rob them too?

Oh, I never said it was LIKELY, I was just stating an alternate *unlikely* scenario. Just as unlikely that any of us will ever be in a situation that started this entire conversation. =) Honestly I had the robbery scenario from the Spider-Man movie playing in my head when I typed that.

[Jonnin]

Pull my weapon *quietly* and without drawing attention to myself. THEN call 911. Then focus on being a good observer unless the situation gets bad enough to justify intervention. If I have to put him down, it will be a shot in the back of the head if I have my way, without warning -- and that only to save the life of the cashier or others if necessary. Otherwise, he can have the money and try to outrun the police, and I will bust out some popcorn for that show.

[DaveTN]

I have run through that scenario in my head plenty of times. If I can’t make a clean head shot, I’ll let him do whatever he is going to do. If I clearly have the opportunity to turn him off like switch; I would take it.

A person threatening another with a gun is bought and paid for. (as long as you are sure what you are seeing… meaning victim/Perp). The only liability I’m worried about is bystanders.

Shooting someone while they are pointing a gun at someone is reckless; so is creating a hostage situation.

[Guest biohazardmatthew]

A person threatening another with a gun is bought and paid for. (as long as you are sure what you are seeing… meaning victim/Perp). The only liability I’m worried about is bystanders.

Yea you got to be 100% certain who is bad guy and who is not. My biggest fear of ever having to use my weapon in a crowded place is for some other HCP holder to run up and shoot me in the back thinking I am one of the bad guys.

[Guest Jon]

Yea you got to be 100% certain who is bad guy and who is not. My biggest fear of ever having to use my weapon in a crowded place is for some other HCP holder to run up and shoot me in the back thinking I am one of the bad guys.

I never considered this. But any person carrying a HCP SHOULD be observent enough to see who the immediate threat would be. Id say 9 times of of 10 it would be clear who is who.

But that is certainly something to keep in mind. I can see the news eating that story alive.