Should this conflict ever arise what would you do?

[Guest Jon]

I run different situations through my head while I carry, as some of you may. But there is one that I just can not decide what I would do, or legally could do. As we get closer to the black friday and christmas shopping seasons, I feel that situations like this could possibly arise. Most likely, and hopefully, they will not. But its never a bad thing to ponder and hear what others would do.

Here is the situation:

So you shopping with your family or a friend at your local retail store. You walk in like any other time and all is well. You gather your items and start to make your way to the front to checkout. From a distance you see there is a man at the register and doesnt look to happy. Your walking up from behind him and can see the cashier is clearly uncomfortable. Right about that time the man pulls a gun demanding money.

What do you do?

Do you automatically pull your weapon and shoot him?

Do you pull your weapon and use verbal commands to try to neutralize?

Would you run and hide and dial 911?

Or would you wait till the man turns on you and then draw your weapon and fire?

These are things that I think about while carrying. Some people call it strange, I just think its me trying to be one step ahead of the bad guys. So lets hear em. What would you guys do if ever caught up in this conflict?

[wcsc12]

I run different situations through my head while I carry, as some of you may. But there is one that I just can not decide what I would do, or legally could do. As we get closer to the black friday and christmas shopping seasons, I feel that situations like this could possibly arise. Most likely, and hopefully, they will not. But its never a bad thing to ponder and hear what others would do.

Here is the situation:

So you shopping with your family or a friend at your local retail store. You walk in like any other time and all is well. You gather your items and start to make your way to the front to checkout. From a distance you see there is a man at the register and doesnt look to happy. Your walking up from behind him and can see the cashier is clearly uncomfortable. Right about that time the man pulls a gun demanding money.

What do you do?

Do you automatically pull your weapon and shoot him?

Do you pull your weapon and use verbal commands to try to neutralize?

Would you run and hide and dial 911?

Or would you wait till the man turns on you and then draw your weapon and fire?

These are things that I think about while carrying. Some people call it strange, I just think its me trying to be one step ahead of the bad guys. So lets hear em. What would you guys do if ever caught up in this conflict?

The sensible thing to do is to hide and call 911. It's really a matter for the police to handle.

[Caster]

Tough call, and I hate to say it, but if I could get away I would. I would risk my life for my wife and any small child, the rest of the public, I'll do what I can, but I ain't taking a bullet for 'em. Maybe I'll feel different when/if the situation presents itself.

It kinda depends on how close I am. If it's point blank, the perp pulls a gun, and there's no one on the opposite side of him, I'm going to put a hole or two in him if I can react fast enough. If there's space and I can get to any form of cover, that's where I'm heading. If he's got my wife or some random little 9 yr old Susie Q; it's highly likely I will get shot, because I would put myself in between them. If I get killed doing that, I'm okay with it. I'll take a martyrs crown;) Knowing my luck, I'd come out a quadriplegic, but I'd still do it. Hopefully someone would feel sorry enough for me to fill me a sippy cup with Cutty Sark.

The older I get, the more defined the line in the sand becomes. This side of the line I'm rather tenacious about self preservation, the other side...I really could care less.

Good post, this is something as a card/gun carrying man we should all think about.

[Guest Jon]

I agree that does make sense.

But with the lives at others at stake could you run and hide knowing that help could be minutes away when every second counts?

Secondly the simple act of you running and hiding could put your or your family at risk if the bad guy is alerted to you.

[Guest Bronker]

I agree that does make sense.

But with the lives at others at stake could you run and hide knowing that help could be minutes away when every second counts?

I'm no cop, and I'm no hero. I'm with Caster.

Secondly the simple act of you running and hiding could put your or your family at risk if the bad guy is alerted to you.

However, if I'm standing behind the guy, and he pulls a gun, he obviously means harm to somebody. With a gun produced, any hint of attention turned my way...a nod, a quick look, and certainly a turn toward me...results in him taking gunfire from me. Up to that point, I'm moving me and mine away.

[mav]

It depends on how close I am. If I am close enough (10 yards or less) that I know I will not miss,I would step off to the side so I am only shooting into the bad guy and not the cashier and then 230 or 115 jhp (depends on what I am carrying that day) to the head.

[BluewaterTactical]

Im glad to see others sit around and ponder scenarios like I do. That's a tough call and I have often thought about a similar situation. Mine is always the grocery store or gas station with the same scenario. I feel like we really never know how we will react in that situation. My heart of hearts tells me to POP the dude and ask forgiveness later but Idk. This may sound horrible but if its the store clerk I might be less inclined to bust the dude, if its my wife or one of my three kids, that's when it gets ugly real fast.

Bluewater Tactical Defense

[Guest bkelm18]

Depends on too much. If I can run with my family to a safer area, I will. If there is no way I can do that without endangering them, then I will explore the option of smoking the guy. I'm no cop, and I'm no vigilante. I'll do anything I can but sometimes you gotta roll the hard six. I'd also rather not escalate the situation any. In all likelyhood, the guy just wants the cash and to scram. If it turns into a hostage scenario or he starts shooting, all bets are off.

[Erik88]

get your family out of there and don't try to be a hero unless you are being threatened. If it was an active shooter scenario I would probably try to take him out if I could. But only if my family was safe.

[Pain103]

First thing you should be concerned about is your family. As bad as it is to see someone else die or dead could you really stand to have a loved one in that condition? Me personally since I don't shop with a family I will probably pull the trigger depending on the risk of third parties. I have came close to pulling the trigger on the job and the only reason I haven't is because of the people or area behind my target. You may hit the suspect and stop his actions but say another round strikes an innocent third party that one stray round will wash away the good one in the eyes of many.

[Guest TresOsos]

Unless he starts shooting people......I'll be a good witness and call 911.

[zapfbroad]

Having worked retail and having been robbed at gunpoint for both money and pharmaceuticals I've have dwelled upon this. I worked next door to a restaurant that was robbed and two employees were taken to the back & murdered. I often think about this when I'm out in stores. Having a hcp and gun does not make you a police officer. The majority of the time when weapons are used for armed robberies they are used solely as tools of threatened menace and to provide robbers authority. They may fire warning shots to capture attention but these people are typically opportunistic and looking for the easy score. They know to get that money they need the weapon. They know using the weapon gets them to the aggravated assault & armed robbery charges. Both of these are half the sentence time of actual homicide/manslaughter charges if they use that weapon to kill. The difference between doing 3-7yrs or 12-15+. Each situation is different. Dept store with lots of witnesses..gas station where anyone can show up in 15seconds.. typically quick flee jobs. Medium-smaller stores with fewer customers or isolated areas greater incentive to eliminate witnesses. You have to assess the perp's apparent intent, majority of the time the best thing in my opinion is to use your heightened awareness to provide accurate description & details most ppl overlook to help arresting leo. Protect anyone you can from collateral damage in whatever order of personal importance u deem.. family, friends, children, etc. If you draw but don't fire immediately you may as well be a cop in a standoff as far as the perp is concerned. Ancillary damages to innocent bystanders etc. With the best of intentions You escalate from an emotionally traumatic experience to life ending possibly for an innocents accidentally hit if u miss or mis-time. The important thing is to have confidence and muscle memory from hours of training so that if it hits the fan and best judgement requires you intercede you don't miss, you don't just maim, you take it old school. Two to the heart, one to the head. Don't waste a bunch of my money with court proceedings for trash.

via EPIC4G SRF1.1.0 by Android Creative Syndicate

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

In the situation you describe, I would try to duck out of the way & call 911, especially if he is only demanding money.

If the BG ramps the situation up by actually starting to shoot people, I would probably then be forced to try & neutralize him. If not, I would have to live with the knowledge that I could probably have saved a lot of people's lives for the rest of my life.

I dont think I would ever try to stop a robbery unless it was me or one of my loved ones being robbed. There's too much potential for problems otherwise. Like I said, if shots are actually being fired, that changes things. I know some people say that if the BG is already threatening with a gun then you should take him out before shots can be fired, but I dont see it that way personally.

[mav]

Well... In this situation, you are being threatened. The criminal is using deadly force, and even though he is directly threatening the cashier, there is no telling what he will do. He could turn at any moment and start shooting everyone he sees. You just don't know in situations like this. Therefore, if opportunity presents itself, eliminate the threat. I don't think that is being a hero. You are just protecting yourself and your family.

[Punisher84]

Well my situation at current is a little different since I'm single with no kids. If I'm close enough to get a clean shot, he's dead. If I'm with my friends, he's dead times however many of us there are.

Now if I was with my hypothetical family, I'd have to make sure they were safe first, but otherwise he's dead. I always see people saying "Well I'm not a cop or a hero." in these threads, but I don't look at it as trying to be a hero. I look at it as trying to prevent a murder. My family does come first, but if I knew that someone died and I could have most likely stopped it, that'd be a very hard pill to swallow for me personally.

[Guest bkelm18]

Well my situation at current is a little different since I'm single with no kids. If I'm close enough to get a clean shot, he's dead. If I'm with my friends, he's dead times however many of us there are.

Now if I was with my hypothetical family, I'd have to make sure they were safe first, but otherwise he's dead. I always see people saying "Well I'm not a cop or a hero." in these threads, but I don't look at it as trying to be a hero. I look at it as trying to prevent a murder. My family does come first, but if I knew that someone died and I could have most likely stopped it, that'd be a very hard pill to swallow for me personally.

I only carry to prevent one murder. Mine. (I don't have a family). Anything beyond that is a crap shoot. Too many variables to say for sure what I'd do.

[MphsTiger1981]

It is in interesting question and one that has played out from time to time in the news. I remember one case a few years ago where a citizen shot it out with a guy robbing a Burger King in Miami. Seems like I recall the perp died, but he shot up the citizen pretty good, too. Miami PD wasn't real pleased with the outcome and really were not ready to give the citizen any credit for taking the law into his own hands over the $23 in the cash register.

Me? Honestly? No clue what I'd do.

I'm not a cop and I'm not a hero. I'm a just a poor schmuck with a family and apparently we're in the wrong place at the wrong time. we were just on our way to the mall, where, with the luck I've had so far, I anticipate we'll encounter a flash mob.

[Guest Jon]

very good replies here. I agree with everyone.

Personally I would try to make sure my family was safe in doing so by the time the police arrived all they would need to do is take witness reports and call the corner.

My logis is this. If someone has the balls enough to pull a gun and threaten harm they also have the balls to pull the trigger. I can not predict what he may or may not do so im gonna just assume he means business and end it right there. From my experience most people willing to stoop so low as to rob a person at gun point has nothing to lose as it is. He doesn't care about any charges that could be brought against him nor does he care about the people surrounding him. He could have been average joe yesterday and been laid off from his job and just trying to make ends meet and is obviously willing to do that in any way possible.

I personally couldnt risk the safety of me or my family by letting the man continue not knowing what the outcome could be. I guess its a better safe than sorry thing for me.

On top of that in a retail store theres not much thats going to shield you from any size round. If he goes nuts and starts spraying bullets cause the cashier only has 50 bucks then the situation just got bad quick and my chances of taking out the threat just got pretty slim.

Im pretty confident up to 25 yards, if I got a shot im taking it and I just hope I dont hesitate.

[Punisher84]

I only carry to prevent one murder. Mine. (I don't have a family). Anything beyond that is a crap shoot. Too many variables to say for sure what I'd do.

Agreed. I don't carry to be a hero anymore than I do the job I do to be one. It's just a personality trait that, for better or worse, just drives me to do something when I can.

All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

[Guest Victor9er]

Unless he starts shooting people......I'll be a good witness and call 911.

+1

Our handgun permit instructer (who is also an LEO) said pretty much the same thing. Gather the details in your head, height, weight, build, hair color, clothes, etc. If there's no immediate threat to life then why risk a potentially deadly confrontation over money... that's not even yours?

Owning a carry permit does not put you under any obligation to protect another person or act as an LEO in any situation. Again, if all he's doing is robbing the place then as long as no one gets hurt let him go... Now, of course if someone's life is in danger the right thing to do morally would be to help if you can..... but you have to quickly weigh the consequences of your actions. In your situation you described the location is a crowded shopping center filled with families. Do you want to risk a shoot-out in a crowded place like that? It's a tough decision when so many lives could be at stake.

[Oh Shoot]

I only carry to prevent one murder. Mine. (I don't have a family). Anything beyond that is a crap shoot. Too many variables to say for sure what I'd do.

Yeah.

Real X factor is that the perp might take the money and run, but you shoot him and then just by reflex alone he pulls his trigger, killing cashier or whoever else. In which case your action went from no one harmed to perhaps two or more shot or dead.

Maybe he has a frigging automatic AK. Maybe he has an accomplice you didn't see. Etc. You could trigger a frigging massacre.

- OS

[Erik88]

Hey Jon,

don't you open carry? It won't even matter for you, you'll be shot in the back 15 times by the bad guy as soon as he enters the building. Didn't you hear?

At least that's what the critics say.......

On a more serious note. I think there are too many variables that could possibly come into play that could change the outcome. Earlier I said what I thought I would do but it's really hard to say for sure. I hope none of us are ever in that scenario to begin with. Some interesting points have been made though.

[Guest uofmeet]

If they are not threatening me or my family, I will stay out of it, and call 911 if it doesn't bring to much attention to me and my family. As far as someone else getting hurt because I didn't react, They have the same rights to carry a gun that I do, it is not my fault if they choose not to exercise it. I will try not to get involved unless he starts shooting.

[Guest roshambo]

This is an interesting topic I have to chime in on. I kinda skimmed over other's posts, but one thing I didn't really see was this: If someone has a gun aimed at someone (in this situation a robber aimed at a cashier), wouldn't you automatically assume he is going to use the weapon? If he's bold enough to pull it out and point it at someone, I'm going to assume he's dumb enough to use it. The "smart" (lol) criminals walk up and say "I've got a gun in my pocket, give me the money and nobody gets hurt". If I were to see this situation and the opportunity was there to get a clean shot without possibly hurting a bystander, I would take it and ask questions later. If he's nervous enough and someone sneezes, he could possibly pull the trigger and THEN it's too late. Gun pointed at someone in an obvious situation such as this, a clean shot, bang, he won't be pointing a weapon at an innocent person again. I'm also going to say along with everyone else though, I'm no hero, I'm no cop, but if I can save another human's life without endangering my own or anyone else's, I would not hesitate.

[Guest apgov47]

Once he pulls the gun I would get away from there with my family immediately. I wouldn't turn my back on him the whole time while my family and I are getting away (incase he turns and draws on me). If possible I would drop anything I was purchasing and run out of the store (with the family of course). If not, I would hide behind an object as far away from the BG. Call the cops and let them do the dirty work.