Ak47/74 which is better 7.62x39 vs 5.45x39?

[TN Outlaw]

im interested in getting an ak47 and would like to know the pros and cons to 7.62x39 vs 5.45x39 all info is appreciated

[M4sherman]

Get an Arsenal SGL-31 and dont look back. Cheap ammo,accurate as hell and clean fit and finish. If your going to go on the cheap end though grab a WASR-10-63 as most of the cheap AK-74's are hit and miss with quality.

[Jonnin]

the smaller round is better.... in a full auto... as it cuts down the recoil. You won't be getting a full auto, so the larger round packs more punch and is probably "better" for any sort of use apart from range time. If you have no practical use for the gun (home defense, hunting, etc) then either caliber will do for a hole punch. I am not sure if the lighter caliber is more accurate or not, the larger one is not known to be a tack driver.

[UncleJak]

I have the Romanian ak47 and wouldn't trade it for anything.

[Mike]

the smaller round is better.... in a full auto... as it cuts down the recoil. You won't be getting a full auto, so the larger round packs more punch and is probably "better" for any sort of use apart from range time. If you have no practical use for the gun (home defense, hunting, etc) then either caliber will do for a hole punch. I am not sure if the lighter caliber is more accurate or not, the larger one is not known to be a tack driver.

The 5.45 is inherently more accurate than the 7.62. It also has substantially less recoil than the 7.62. this has benefits outside of full auto fire allowing faster followup shots and generally a much more enjoyable time shooting. It also is quite lethal; the bullets tumble violently when hitting soft tissue.

Mike

[glockster157]

If ammo cost is an issue then the 5.45x39 is by far the cheaper way to go. The Russian military is corrosive so if you pick a rifle without a chrome lined barrel you need to be aware and just keep it clean. I just spray Dollar store Windex down my Tantal before I leave the range and pull a snake through it, then finish cleaning when I get home. Probably not necessary as I could probably wait until I get home but it makes me feel better.

[TN Outlaw]

thanks for the help and info guys! is there a gun show this weekend in knoxville if so i wonder if i could find a good deal on one there?

[Jonnin]

gunshows of any size ALWAYS have a half dozen or more AK47s. I have not noticed that the 74s are terribly common, but you may find one of those as well. Educate yourself if you do this, there are many types of AK and you need to know what you are getting for how much money before you go in the door, or take a portable web browser so you can research whatever model you find at the show...!

[Guest bkelm18]

thanks for the help and info guys! is there a gun show this weekend in knoxville if so i wonder if i could find a good deal on one there?

You could always track down a Saiga and convert it (if it hasn't been already).

[glockster157]

Yes, there is a gun show in Knoxville this weekend...too far for me though.

[Guest Cory2]

One of my friends has several russian "military" firearms, including an ak-47 and an ak-74. I am not big ak guru but from shooting them both the ak-74's recoil is equal to or less than that of an ar-15, but it has more muzzle rise. My friend (whom is probably a memeber here, I will ask him) prefers the 74 because the ammo is alledgedly cheaper and it is more accurate than the 47. At about 20 yards the the holes on his "proof target" were virtually touching eachother. It is no sniper rifle by anymeans obviously but for the purposes of an intermediate cartridge semi-auto rifle it is more than accurate enough.

I have shot them both and I prefer the ak-47, but that is mainly because I like the heavier recoil. Makes me feel like that would lay down more carnage on the recieving end. However, if I was looking for a SHTF rifle I would take the 74 over the 47 purely because the ammo is lighter weight.

Thats my 2 cents on the subject.

[Jonnin]

One of my friends has several russian "military" firearms, including an ak-47 and an ak-74. I am not big ak guru but from shooting them both the ak-74's recoil is equal to or less than that of an ar-15, but it has more muzzle rise. My friend (whom is probably a memeber here, I will ask him) prefers the 74 because the ammo is alledgedly cheaper and it is more accurate than the 47. At about 20 yards the the holes on his "proof target" were virtually touching eachother. It is no sniper rifle by anymeans obviously but for the purposes of an intermediate cartridge semi-auto rifle it is more than accurate enough. I have shot them both and I prefer the ak-47, but that is mainly because I like the heavier recoil. Makes me feel like that would lay down more carnage on the recieving end. However, if I was looking for a SHTF rifle I would take the 74 over the 47 purely because the ammo is lighter weight.Thats my 2 cents on the subject.

I am the same, launching bullets that make my 380 seem large out of a rifle just bugs me, somehow. Yes, I know its moving 4x as fast and quite destructive on the target, but I like the big stuff.

[glockster157]

As to ammo cost again, you can get 1080 tins of 5.45 for around 130-150 dollars. Check out ammoseek.com , the 5.45 is running .13 a round and the 7.62 is .18 cents a round. I bought the 5.45 in quantity so I know it has been holding at that price for a while. 7.62 seems to rise more easily.

As to effectiveness, that is the same 308 vs. 223 argument we have about US ammo. One thing about the Russian military round though, they designed it with a hollow nose so that on impact the weight could shift forward and tumble. We redesigned the 5.56 in the M855 with a steel core so that it would not tumble and goes straight through. The 5.45 is more destructive to humans from what I have read and the anecdotal field reports from Afghanistan, mainly from the Russian occupation period.

[robin48]

I have a Saiga in 5.45. I chose it for price and the destructive capability. The Saiga is quite accurate.

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[Magiccarpetrides]

Before I would get a 5.45 AK I would get an ar since its ammo is no longer the $90 per 1080 steal it used to be...the 7.62 is more powerful and accurate enough inside normal fighting distances with a lot more knockdown and penetration...think cinder block destroyer.

[R1100R]

Before I would get a 5.45 AK I would get an ar since its ammo is no longer the $90 per 1080 steal it used to be...the 7.62 is more powerful and accurate enough inside normal fighting distances with a lot more knockdown and penetration...think cinder block destroyer.

Hater, that is because you have never shot a 5.45:). I have my third one being delivered today in the hood to Eastside Gun Shop.

To the OP you really should try both, then make a decision. My 5.45 are way more accurate than the 7.62's I own. I vote for being greedy and owning one of each.

[Magiccarpetrides]

I had a nice 5.56 ak at one time...now that one I wish I had kept ;-D

It ain't hatin if its troof! lol

Hater, that is because you have never shot a 5.45:). I have my third one being delivered today in the hood to Eastside Gun Shop.

To the OP you really should try both, then make a decision. My 5.45 are way more accurate than the 7.62's I own. I vote for being greedy and owning one of each.

[Guest bkelm18]

Outlaw, if you decide to go the Saiga route, Bud's has 5.45 Saigas for $396.

[TGO David]

The 5.45 is inherently more accurate than the 7.62. It also has substantially less recoil than the 7.62. this has benefits outside of full auto fire allowing faster followup shots and generally a much more enjoyable time shooting. It also is quite lethal; the bullets tumble violently when hitting soft tissue.

Mike

What he said.

[TGO David]

I am the same, launching bullets that make my 380 seem large out of a rifle just bugs me, somehow. Yes, I know its moving 4x as fast and quite destructive on the target, but I like the big stuff.

Kinetic energy > Mass

[glockster157]

The biggest problem I have had with my Tantal is I can't seem to stop pulling the trigger or get the pudding smile off of my face. It is a lot of fun to shoot and knowing the cost isn't horrendous really helps. I stick in a 30 round mag and before you know it, it's gone.

[peejman]

Kinetic energy > Mass

Truth. KE = 0.5*m*V^2

It takes 8x more mass to get the same energy as doubling the velocity. I've always wanted an AK and thought I wanted one in 7.62 just to stay common with my SKS. This thread has gone a long way toward convincing me otherwise.

[Jonnin]

Truth. KE = 0.5*m*V^2It takes 8x more mass to get the same energy as doubling the velocity. I've always wanted an AK and thought I wanted one in 7.62 just to stay common with my SKS. This thread has gone a long way toward convincing me otherwise.

But penetration is king --- or so many say that anyway, and momentum is directly a measure of how difficult an object is to bring to a stop. That is simply M*V, so any increase in either variable (with all other things staying the same) will give better penetration. The 357 has a medium diameter, a good amount of mass, a high velocity --- of course it is a decent penetrator. Take a 357 caliber spitball and push it to the same energy level as that 357 via extreme velocity, and it will not penetrate squat (maybe fatal at blank range, but tell me all about it at 20 yards or after going thru a car door), because it has almost no mass and will stop rapidly just from air resistance, nevermind what a solid target would do to it.

[Guest Cory2]

Terminal ballistics is far more complicated than simply saying KE=½mass*velocity² It is also deceptive to say that. Because bullets rotate as they travel through the air the amount of energy they carry is greatly different than the simple KE formula. Which is the reason that there is not a 4( four, not 8 like some have said) times energy difference between different caliber rounds. We must also account for the energy that is stored in the bullets rotation, which will bring the values much closer together because bullets pretty much spin at relatively the same speed out of a rifle, there generally aren't significant differences between them.

However, this is just touching on the energy, we must also account for the shape and size of the object because they will greatly determine the effect on the object you are shooting...

Look, it isn't easy stuff and I don't want to get to deep into it, but just suffice to say that if it was a clear cut as some of you have tried to make it seem (the difference between big slow bullets and small fast bullets) than there wouldn't be any discussion about it. But as there is a discussion and probably always will be it is just personal preference.

[TGO David]

Look, it isn't easy stuff and I don't want to get to deep into it, but just suffice to say that if it was a clear cut as some of you have tried to make it seem (the difference between big slow bullets and small fast bullets) than there wouldn't be any discussion about it. But as there is a discussion and probably always will be it is just personal preference.

I think you're already getting into it. So go on... educate us.