Subsonic .308

[Guest 556or762]

I am about to start loading some subsonic .308 does anyone out there have a favorite combination? I have some 180 and 190 grain HPBT bullets to use for my initial loading and I have been told Trail Boss is a good powder due to the volumetrics, any info would be great.

[Caster]

I've never loaded subsonic 308, but AA 5744 would work well, it's a pretty bulky powder. I think you may find that it and Trailboss may be position sensitive.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I have used trail boss for subsonic in other calibers. It works great and the only recommendation I can make is load the bullets themselves backwards. Doesn't make a difference as far as ballistics go (actually some say it helps) and makes identiying them fool proof. Having a flat front also helps transfer some of the energy of the bullet into the target. like a SWC does.

Dolomite

[Guest 556or762]

I have used trail boss for subsonic in other calibers. It works great and the only recommendation I can make is load the bullets themselves backwards. Doesn't make a difference as far as ballistics go (actually some say it helps) and makes identiying them fool proof. Having a flat front also helps transfer some of the energy of the bullet into the target. like a SWC does.

Dolomite

I never would have thought of that I did get some info from Hodgdon they say a Sierra Matchking 168, a Fed 210M primer, 8gn of Titegroup, 2.8"oal makes 1080 fps. Looks like I have a lot of trial and error coming up to make a round that works well in both an M1loaded and a Rem 700 26" heavy barrel, WooHoo!

[Dolomite_supafly]

Here is my delving into the subsonic world:

I have had a few rifles chambered in the round, a couple of AR's and a couple of Savage bolt actions. Here is the last Savage I chambered in the 7.62x25 Tokarev. I would use it to shoot heavy subsonic reloads as well as cheap surplus. The subsonic Tokarev loads I worked up are actually being used by a few people now that are producing the AR chambered in the Tokarev round. The subsonic rounds will never hit the mainstream but makes for a very quiet gun with a suppressor. The Tokarev uses a .308' bore rather than the .311" like the AK. This makes finding reloading components easy.

Here are pictures of the last Tokarev build:

The tube is a tensioning sleeve that fits over the barrel then the muzzle nut is tightened down to tension the barrel. I first did this to try to fix a heat related drift problem I had with a rifle and it worked great. Before after about 5 rounds the bullets would start walking and by round 10 they were 1"+ off of zero but after I could shoot long strings without any drift. It seems to work out to be similiar to a bull barrel as far as stiffness goes yet is lighter weight.

I actually used do a lot of odd projects, over the years some have worked and some haven't. I considered the Tokarev rifle a success because it did exactly what I wanted it to. It was also cheaper to build, load and shoot than the 300 Whisper. And as long as I stay subsonic there were no difference between the two. Reamers, dies, brass are all cheaper and available while the 300 Whisper tends to be expensive on all counts unless you decide to make your own brass but the dies and reamer as more expensive than the Tokarev's.

The Tokarev let me shoot cheap surplus or my subsonic handloads. Even without a suppressor is was a quiet gun. My previous build used a 24.5" barrel and was as quiet as a 16" 10/22 shooting CCI subsonics yet with the heaviest bullets it developed muzzle energy that was comparable to a 357 magnum not to mention the ballistics were better. I did a lot of testing on stability also and rather than try to get a HP to open at subsonic velocities I was able to get it to readily tumble. This was more reliable and created more damage than just passing through. Also, the chance of tumbling only gets better as velocity drops while a HP opening it only gets worse. I did this by testing several different twist rates and getting the bullet just stable enough to be accurate yet unstable enough to tumble when it hit something. I got it to where the subsonic bullet would reliably tumble at 6"-10" of water.

I have had to slow my projects substantially because I was in a helicopter accident in June of 2008 in some far away place.

I know this is long winded but the Tokarev round is a very fun and powderful round in a rifle and if you get one you will have fun with it.

Dolomite

[Caster]

You and your ridiculously cool toys. *jealous*

[Guest 556or762]

I have to say I see your replys to several threads here and they are always well thought out and based on actual fact rather than the usual, "I dont like me cause they is silly lookin and they dont shoot gud I tell ya what." I gotta say I pay attention to those with experience because it is the best teacher and I learn something from you everyday on here i will look into the tokarov round I am always looking for a goo reliable and quiet gun to play with. Ryan B.

[Guest 556or762]

Oh and I saw one or two of those such things you were in when I was in a far away place last year, that and a whole lot of shrapnel infested hardware.

[Alleycat72]

You can get a .30 bullet that will expand at very low velocities. (700 to 800 fps) I hunt with them, but you would not want to shoot them in a machinegun.

[Dolomite_supafly]

You can get a .30 bullet that will expand at very low velocities. (700 to 800 fps) I hunt with them, but you would not want to shoot them in a machinegun.

That was the holy grail for the people I was collaborating with. We decided that a tumbling bullet was easier to get than a reliable HP at reduced velocities. Another advantage is a tumbling bullet generally had more surface area than an expanded bullet.

There are some amazing designs out now that weren't even available a few years ago. I guess with all the new found popularity of suppressors and subsonic cartridges it can only get better.

Dolomite

[Alleycat72]

I’ve been working with one manufacturer. I did a lot of the field testing. The bullets expand and then tumble. When long match tumble they are impressive on game, bu tthey don’t always tumble. Most just do head and neck shots. I was looking for something that could be used with conventional shot placement. (I get excited with deer in the woods) I’ve popped about 20 deerwith them. They work, but they are not for the backyard plinker. Click the pic. 308

[MacGyver]

That is nice!