"Ron Paul can't get elected, Sorry"

[Smith]

Dubya went into Iraq because he had to do SOMETHING to show America we were fighting back, and Saddam was a world wide known bad guy who was an easy win with lots of show. And because on a personal level too, since his Daddy didn't get The Big Bad Man, just thinking with his gut (actually, dick) instead of his "brain".

The WMD evidence was sparse and sketchy at best, probably will be proven some day every bit of it was trumped up and Dubya knew it.

- OS

GB never went after Sadaam becasue our stated goal was to get them out of our ally Kuwait. We did that and left. Look how that turned out. We should have finished it then, but politics were not so different then as they are now.

As far as WMD - He had them. He used them to great effect in Kurdistan, Iran as well as inside Iraq. We found a lot and many went to Russia among other places. Dislike him if you want but broad generalities that accentiate or minimize the facts just make your arguments invalid. If you recall this is the same fact crapping that got dumped on our troops after Nam.

[Smith]

Enjoy the truth and tricky of our elected, Then vote Perry because they want you too.

Who is this "they" you speak of?

[Guest Zombie-Hunter]

Who is this "they" you speak of?

Obviously the "Media" who is controlling them is the debate you're looking for.

[RobertNashville]

Ron Pall will never get the Republican nomination nor if he did, would he ever win the election.

There are many factors that come into play before someone has a real chance of winning the Presidency; most of it is perception but perception truly is reality in most cases, including this one.

Ron is a pretty sound conservative on most issues but really out on in la-la land on some others. He is too old for most people to take seriously and he simply doesn't "look" like most people think a president should look. For those and other reasons he simply has never and will never garner enough support among the average Republican/conservative to gain traction and without a LOT of traction, he'll never get past the Republican establishment.

Frankly, some the worst things about Ron Paul is not Ron Paul himself, his age, his positions or his "looks" but his supporters...many seem to go out of their way to be obnoxious which will never help him get support.

[Smith]

Obviously the "Media" who is controlling them is the debate you're looking for.

Which media? Mainstream media tries to destroy any and all Rebulican/conservative/libertarian candidates and Fox vasilates among the same candidates depending on who's winning polls/debates. Talk Radio guys all have different favorites. So ... I'm not sure where this unified "they" conspiricy group that has one goal of destroying Paul and electing Perry comes from. Outside of the "mainstream" media the others go with who ever is winning the polls and debates. So with that logic the "they" you refer to is "us" who vote.

[G27]

I think it's more accurate to say that, if we're honest, most Americans don't really want a constitutional federal government.

Those of us who do are in the minority.

[JPR1959]

As far as WMD - He had them. He used them to great effect in Kurdistan, Iran as well as inside Iraq. We found a lot and many went to Russia among other places. Dislike him if you want but broad generalities that accentiate or minimize the facts just make your arguments invalid. If you recall this is the same fact crapping that got dumped on our troops after Nam.

I agree with all of your comments, but I believe some of the WMDs went to Syria before our troops hit the ground. I doubt very seriously our government "made" up any facts. I'll leave that to the tin foil conspiracy theorists.

[sigmtnman]

... I doubt very seriously our government "made" up any facts...

Of course not, they make up lies...

[Oh Shoot]

GB never went after Sadaam becasue our stated goal was to get them out of our ally Kuwait. We did that and left. Look how that turned out. We should have finished it then,...

Exactly, and that sentiment, along with Saddam's public threats on his daddy's life fired up Dubya's cowboy vengeance, on a psychological (psychotic, really) level.

As far as WMD - He had them.

No we didn't. Final total of finds by coalition forces totaled approximately 500 various canisters of degraded nerve agent, all buried long previously about the time of the Iraq/Iran conflict.

If Saddam had WMDs, he would certainly have deployed them during the ground invasion. And he wouldn't have gotten them out of Iraq just previous to the invasion, makes no sense at all.

Also, if we indeed had the wonderfully accurate WMD intel in the area you claim before the invasion, these weapons would have surfaced one way or the other afterwards by virtue of the same wonderful intel.

And even if he did have the same level he did up through the Iran conflict, they posed little if any danger to the US.

I agree with all of your comments, but I believe some of the WMDs went to Syria before our troops hit the ground. I doubt very seriously our government "made" up any facts. I'll leave that to the tin foil conspiracy theorists.

Yeah, all generals get rid of their weapons just before they need them the most, well known warfare tactic. Believing any of our constantly changing stated objectives in the Middle East is what requires the heaviest application of tin foil.

- OS

[mikegideon]

Which media? Mainstream media tries to destroy any and all Rebulican/conservative/libertarian candidates and Fox vasilates among the same candidates depending on who's winning polls/debates. Talk Radio guys all have different favorites. So ... I'm not sure where this unified "they" conspiricy group that has one goal of destroying Paul and electing Perry comes from. Outside of the "mainstream" media the others go with who ever is winning the polls and debates. So with that logic the "they" you refer to is "us" who vote.

You don't count Fox as part of mainstream media? Please don't tell me you believe they're any less full of crap than the rest.

[greenego]

I also do not not believe Ron Paul will win a primary let alone the GOP nomination. My fear is that if Perry wins the nomination, Paul will run as a third party candidate. Paul doesn't like Perry. Maybe he has a thing for Dems that turn Rep.

[G27]

Maybe he has a thing for Dems that turn Rep.

Or maybe he has a thing for repubs who force vaccinations on children via executive order.

Perry is SSDD.

[Smith]

You don't count Fox as part of mainstream media? Please don't tell me you believe they're any less full of crap than the rest.

Fox has not traditionally been considered part of the main stream media complex. Thus the reason I separated them.

[RobertNashville]

Certainly as far as viewership goes, they are "mainstream"...if I'm not mistaken, they pull better numbers than all the other cable news networks and possibly even the broadcast networks combined.

What tends to be different about FOX is that they have an openly "center to right leaning" bent.

I don't 100% trust any network news outlet but I'd trust FOX any day of the week before any other and I think that in their actual "news" segments (as opposed to their opinion/issue segments) they at least try to give facts/news rather than opinion.

[Guest Zombie-Hunter]

Fox News is a Sheepherder same as any other force feed outlet.

[sigmtnman]

The Media and TV Programming (not including Film, Publishing, etc)

Source: Ownership Chart: The Big Six | Free Press

GE:

On January 18, 2011 the Federal Communications Commission approved Comcast’s take-over of a majority share of NBC-Universal from General Electric. However, General Electric still has a 49% ownership stake in NBC-Universal.

Television networks: NBC Networks, Telemundo, Ion Media (partial stake).

Cable: NBC Entertainment, NBC News, NBC Sports, NBC Television, NBC Universal, CNBC, CNBC World (Arabia, India, Asia, Europe), MSNBC, Bravo, SyFy Channel, Telemundo, USA, Oxygen, Weather Plus, Mun2, Sleuth, Chiller, Universal HD, A&E Networks (16%; includes A&E, the History Channel, History en español, the Biography Channel, Military History Channel, Crime & Investigation Network, A&E HD, the History Channel HD, History International), the Weather Channel (partial), SyFy Channel HD.

Production and distribution companies: NBC Universal Television Distribution, Universal Media Studios

26 television stations, owned under the “NBC Universal†division. These include NBC affiliates, 46 stations, Telemundo affiliates, and a small number of independents.

International Channels: 13eme Rue (France), 13th Street (Germany), Studio Universal (Germany), Sci-fi Channel (Germany), Calle 13 (Spain), Sci Fi Channel UK, Movies 24 (UK), DivaTV (UK), Studio Universal (Italy), Universal Channel (Latin America), CNBC Asia, CNBC Europe, 18 Hallmark Channels (worldwide), KidsCo (worldwide, partial).

Programming: NBC Network News, NBC Universal Global Networks, NBC Universal International Channels, The Today Show, NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams, Dateline NBC, Meet the Press, Early Today, CNBC, Squawk Box, Mad Money, CNBC World, CNBC Arabia, CNBC-India TV-18, Hardball with Chris Matthews, the Rita Cosby Specials Unit, Morning Joe, Mun2, Sleuth, A&E [partial], the History Channel [partial], the Biography Channel (partial), ShopNBC (27%).

Walt Disney:

Disney Media Networks, a company whose holdings include:

The ABC Television Network: ABC Entertainment, ABC Daytime, ABC News, ESPN on ABC, ABC Television, ABC Kids, and Touchstone Television.

Production & Distribution Companies: Walt Disney Television, Walt Disney Television Animation, BVS entertainment, ABC Studios, Walt Disney Television, Disney-ABC Domestic Television.

Cable Networks: ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN Classic, ESPNEWS, ESPN PPV, ESPN Deportes, ESPNU, ESPNHD, ESPN2 HD, ESPNEWSHD and ESPNUHD, Disney Channel HD, Toon Disney, SOAPnet, ABC Family Channel, A&E Television Networks (42% equity; includes A&E, the History Channel, the Biography Channel, History en español, Military History Channel, Crime & Investigation Network, A&E HD, The History Channel HD), Lifetime Entertainment Services (50% equity; includes Lifetime Television, Lifetime Movie Network, Lifetime Real Women).

International Channels: ESPN International, ESPN America, ESPN Latin America, ESPN Asia, ESPN Classic Sport Europe, Jetix Europe, Jetix Latin America, Jetix Canada, Jetix Israel, International Disney Channels, History International.

The ABC Television Network has 226 affiliated stations reaching 99 percent of all U.S. television households. The company owns and operates ten ABC television stations in the nation’s top markets.

Programming: Good Morning America, World News with Charles Gibson, World News Now, 20/20, Primetime, This Week With George Stephanopoulos, Sportscenter/Monday Night Football, ESPNplus, Playhouse Disney, Jetix, ABC Kids.

News Corp (Fox):

Networks: Fox, MyNetworkTV. In the United States, News Corp. owns 27 television stations.

Cable: Fox Business Channel, Fox Movie Channel, Fox News Channel, Fox College Sports, Fox Regional Sports Networks (16 owned and operated), Fox Sports En Espanol, Fox Sports Net, Fox Soccer Channel, Fox Reality, Premier Media Group (Australia 50%), Premium Movie Partnership (Australia 20%), Cine Canal (Latin America 23%), Telecine (Latin America 13%), FUEL TV, FX, FX HD, National Geographic Channel (US 67% and Worldwide 52%), National Geographic Channel HD, SPEED Channel, SPEED HD, Big Ten Network & Big Ten Network HD (49%), Premier Media Group (Australia 50%).

Production and Distribution Companies: Fox Television Studios, Fox Home Entertainment, 20th Century Fox Television, 20th Television, Regency Television (50%).

Satellite Television: Fox International owns 120 channels around the world.

Europe: SKY Italia includes Sky Sport, Sky Calcio, Sky Cinema, Sky TG 24, Premiere AG (25%). British Sky Broadcasting (39%) includes Sky News, Sky Sports, Sky Travel, Sky One, Sky Movies, Artsworld. News Corp. also owns Balkan News Corporation.

Latin America:LAPTV (33%), Telecine (13%).

Asia: STAR Channels, Space TV (India DBS 20%), Phoenix Satellite Television (18%), Hathway Cable and Datacom (22%), China Network Systems (17 affiliated cable systems), Vijay, Xing Kong Channel [V], ESPN Star Sports (50%), ANTV (20%), TATA Sky (20%), Asianet (50%), Asianet Plus (50%), Suvarna (50%), Sitara (50%).

Australia & New Zealand: Sky Network Television Limited (44%), FOXTEL (25%).

Programming: Fox Sports, Special Report with Brit Hume, Fox Report with Shepard Smith, On the Record With Greta Van Susteren, Fox News Sunday, The O’Reilly Factor, Fox Pan American Sports (38%).

TimeWarner:

Network: CW Network (50% with CBS).

Cable: Home Box Office, Inc. (HBO, Cinemax, HBO Sports, HBO Pay-Per-View, HBO on Demand, Cinemax Multiplexes, Cinemax on Demand, HBO HD, Cinemax HD, as well as HBO channels around the world), TruTV, TBS, TBS HD, Boomerang, Cartoon Network, Turner Classic Movies, TCM Europe, TCM Asia Pacific, TNT, TNT HD, CNN Airport Network, CNN International, CNN Headline News, CNN en Español, CNN en Español Radio, CNN Pipeline.

Regional and Local Channels: NY1 News, NY1 Noticias, Sports Net, R News (Rochester, NY), Turner South, Capital News 9 Albany, MetroSports, News 8 Austin, News 10 Now — Syracuse, News 14 Carolina-Charlotte, News 14 Carolina-Raleigh.

International: CNN International, CNN Headline News in Asia Pacific, CNN Headline News in Latin America, CNN+, CETV (36%)(China), CNNj, CNN Turk, CNN-IBN, Cartoon Network Europe, Cartoon Network Latin America, Cartoon Network Asia Pacific, Cartoon Network Japan (70% share), Imagen, TCM Classic Hollywood in Latin America, TNT Latin America, TNT Serie, truTV, Nuts TV, Cartoonito, Pogo, 7 networks in Latin America.

Production and Distribution: Warner Bros. Television Group, Warner Home Video, Warner Horizon Television, Warner Bros. Animation, Warner Bros. Digital Distribution, Telepictures Productions, HBO Video, HBO Independent Productions, New Line Television, Williams St. Studio, Cartoon Network Studios, CNN Newsource, Central Media Enterprises (31%).

Programming: CNN Newsroom, Live From The Situation Room, Lou Dobbs Tonight, Larry King Live, Anderson Cooper 360, NBA Games, MLB Playoffs, NASCAR, Entourage, Kids' WB, American Morning.

[sigmtnman]

The Media and TV Programming (not including Film, Publishing, etc)

Source: Ownership Chart: The Big Six | Free Press

(Continued)

VIACOM:

Viacom owns 10 TV stations (primarily broadcasting MTV Tr3s).

Cable: MTV, MTV2, Nickelodeon/Nick-at-Nite, TV Land, VH1, Spike TV, CMT: Country Music Television, Comedy Central, Palladia, MTV U, LOGO, MTV World, MTV Films, Nickelodeon Movies, Paramount Comedy, BET, BET Jazz, BET Gospel, BET Hip Hop, Nick Jr., TeenNick, MTV Tr3s, VH1 Classic, VH1 Soul, VH1 Pure Country.

International Channels: MTV Networks International operates in 160 countries. Viacom also owns Colors, The Music Factory, The Box, Game One, VIVA, QOOB, MTV Network Europe, Comedy Central Germany, MTV Base, MTV Arabia.

Production: BET Event Production, MTV Productions.

Programming: The Hills, Nick Gas, Turbo Nick, Nicktoons Network, The Daily Show, The Colbert Report, MTV Jams, MTV World.

CBS:

Networks: CBS Network consists of 30 stations. CW Network (50% with Time Warner).

Cable: CBS College Sports Network, the Smithsonian Channel, MountainWest Sports Network (50% with Comcast). Showtime Networks, Inc. (SNI) owns Showtime, the Movie Channel, Flix, Showtime Too, Showtime Showcase, Showtime Extreme, Showtime Beyond, Showtime Next, Showtime Women, Showtime Familyzone, the Movie Channel Xtra, Showtime HD, Showtime Too HD, Showtime PPV, Showtime on Demand, the Movie Channel HD.

Programming: CBS Television Distribution: CSI: Crime Scene Investigation, Survivor, Everybody Loves Raymond, Jeopardy!, The Oprah Winfrey Show, Entertainment Tonight, The Early Show, 60 Minutes, 48 Hours, Face the Nation, Two and a Half Men, The Young and The Restless.

CBS also owns CBS News, CBS Sports, CBS Entertainment, and broadcasts the NCAA Basketball Tournament.

International: In the UK, CBS Action, CBS Reality, CBS Drama. In Australia, TV1 (33%), Sci Fi (33%).

Production and Distribution: CBS Television Studios, CBS Studios International, CBS Television Distribution, CBS Films, CBS Paramount Network Television, CBS Paramount International Television.

[wjh2657]

Ron Paul cannot be elected or even nominated because the Republican Party will not allow it.

He doesn't really have all that much money. Although a millionaire, he is a relative pauper compared to the other congressmen.

He is a self made man. He made his own fortune. This is an anathema to the ruling elite. No mere "member of the masses" should ever be allowed to accumulate wealth. It is to be inherited as their GOD intended. ( I do sometimes think we have different GODs, mine doesn't say you have to be born rich to be a good man.)

He hasn't taken big money from the Industrial Masters. Especially interesting is , although a Physician, he has not taken the big bucks from the Drug or HMO industries. Sure sign that he is "UnAmerican", possibly a Commie? Never trust an honest man, the Political Parties don't.

He votes with his head and is notorious for not toeing the mark and following the Party Line. Again, maybe a little pink in his philosophy?

He doesn't run with the Ruling Elite and has very suspect ties to the middle class. He actually has friends among these Socialist, Communist, and quite possibly Muslim vermin. Rush has some really good thoughts on this.

All in all he is not a good Republican and the party isn't even sure he is a good American.

If FOX NEWS was not a Ruling Elite parrot and really did stand for what they say they do, they would back Ron Paul to the limit. But FOX is the voice of the "Born Rich" wealthy elite and will back the oil people and giant super corporations thereby letting the small business folks go down the toilet. I don't trust any news media anymore, they all have the wrong agendas. I am not a Socialist nor a Plutocrat,so the TV News is of no use to me at all.

As a free market (true free market) advocate , a believer that America needs a strong, small business and professional middle class, small government, and as a Conservative, I love this guy and will vote for him if he runs as an Independent. Hell, I'll even campaign for him locally!

Edited September 10, 2011 by wjh2657

[sigmtnman]

[RobertNashville]

...If FOX NEWS was not a Ruling Elite parrot and really did stand for what they say they do, they would back Ron Paul to the limit.

I could not disagree more with this sentiment.

It is not the job of any news media to "back" any political candidate and members of the media doing so is a major problem.

[Guest gwu77]

I strongly doubt that Ron Paul will get the nomination, however, I strongly doubted that Ronald Reagan would get the nomination either!!! God bless Mr. Paul, but he is 75 years old. At least Perry has signaled his support for repeal of the 17th Amendment. After that, anything would be possible for us. End the Wars and end the Fed. Return to the Constitution!!!

[Guest bkelm18]

I could not disagree more with this sentiment.

It is not the job of any news media to "back" any political candidate and members of the media doing so is a major problem.

+1. If they did what they actually stood for, they'd be "fair and balanced" which they are far from. Just like the rest of the propaganda machines.

[Guest lostpass]

I'll tell you why Ron Paul won't be taken seriously but you probably won't like the answer. It's the same reason that Dennis Kucinich doesn't stand a chance. Those guys kill imagination.

See, when you're voting for a president you get the chance to use your imagination. If you vote for Obama or, Perry (for example) you are free to use your imagination. If you don't like Obama you can imagine Obama will take your guns. If you like Obama you can imagine that he will shut down Gitmo, end the wars and so forth. If you don't like Perry you can imagine he is going to send some christian boots to your house and make you pray to baby Jesus. If you like Perry you can imagine he is going to make changes that will balance the budget.

It really doesn't matter, pick your candidate and the one you like, or whatever reason is the one that you imagine will do the stuff you want. HAte government spending but love medicare? Your have choice will magically support your position.

It is not actual magic, those guys are pros. you say you hate politics and whatever. Fine, but since you hate politics this guy is an outsider! Those political folks aren't smarter than you but they outwork you when it comes to politics. Their job is to get re elected, that's how they put food on the table. You put food on the table by writing TPS reports or something, you're as smart as them but you don't have the time to devote to watching politics.

With Ron PAul (or a some genuine conservative) or with Dennis Kucinich (or actual liberal) you are robbed of your imagination. Those guys just say what they want to do. YOu might think the gold standard is nuts (it is) but Ron doesn't mess around, no secret wink and nod to the gold standard folks, it is straight ahead "I'm for it" You might be for hate gay marriage but Kucinich don't care, that guy is all in with his support for it.

Transparency is what those guys are about (as far as the positions go, for all I know they spend their spare time moving sex with barney dolls) and a really transparent option is not a decent option when compared to a slick option who uses the right weasel words.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Thanks sigmtnman. Excellent description of the libertarian position on initiation of force.

With Ron PAul (or a some genuine conservative) or with Dennis Kucinich (or actual liberal) you are robbed of your imagination. Those guys just say what they want to do. YOu might think the gold standard is nuts (it is) but Ron doesn't mess around, no secret wink and nod to the gold standard folks, it is straight ahead "I'm for it" You might be for hate gay marriage but Kucinich don't care, that guy is all in with his support for it.

Transparency is what those guys are about (as far as the positions go, for all I know they spend their spare time moving sex with barney dolls) and a really transparent option is not a decent option when compared to a slick option who uses the right weasel words.

Yep for instance Obama was the ultimate blank slate for projections. On the other hand, risking invocation of Godwin's Law, Hitler managed to be elected by being plain spoken of his positions. But given enough weasel statements, after the fact, after a politician does something truly obnoxious, critics can chide, "Well, he said what he was gonna do before he was elected." Obama said "positive things" about gay marriage but also mouthed the "between a man and a worman" line, depending on venue. So he had all bases covered. If he had worked to ban gay rights after election, you could dredge up campaign statements where he said he was gonna do it. Or if he legalized gay marriage by executive decree after election, you could dredge up campaign statements where he said he was gonna do it.

Your examples with Kucinich vs Paul are somewhat "false choices" however, because Paul and Kucinich seem to have similar attitudes about gay marriage. It would only be a distinction of gov force because Kucinich may be more in favor of using force of gov to actively enforce gay marriage. OTOH Kucinich doesn't appear to be much of an advocate for wielding strong gov force so it may be a minimal difference between the two.

Similarly, Paul and Kucinich both advocate "audit the fed" idea and I'm "just guessing" the Kucinich would not necessarily be against a gold standard idea in the proper context. Libertarians and classical liberals are close to the same thing.

[kieefer]

Gingrich also wants the fed audited and he has a better chance getting elected than RPaul.

Just saying.