HCP and Eyesight

[Guest JohnL]

The first question I asked here centered around "Target". This question centers around "blind". On a gun forum, these are not good words to do an archive search on. So forgive me if this has been covered although that is doubtful.

I have a friend who is legally blind. She can see contrasts and very, very large print. She has become concerned for her safety and we have been considering her options. OC spray is an option but both of us foresee draw and aim issues. A shotgun in her home is the obvious answer but not the whole answer because she walks everywhere, often alone.

I put her on my makeshift range out at my farm to see what would happen. Straight out of the gate with a Mark III she put 7 of 10 in a white paper plate at 7 yards with a dark soil background. She stayed consistent at that range through 100 rounds. .38 and 9mm were different stories. Baby steps. (actually she did ok with single action)

Next weekend i will work with her on silhouette targets and the Mark III. I'm almost certain that in a few sessions she will be able to stay on paper at 15 yards with a small caliber pistol or revolver, larger than .22LR.

I am 100% certain that she won't be able to see the written test without accommodations. Will instructors make allowances for this? Hell, does TN gun law even cover vision impairment? In the dark I wouldn't have much of an advantage and in the dark without my contacts in, she would have a definite advantage.

Or do I just focus on a shotgun and Less than Lethal instruction?

Some people say I get wordy...

[zapfbroad]

I haven't seen any gun laws pertaining to visual disabilities. I would probably discourage carrying small arms for protection simply because she would have such a bigger margin for error especially of innocent bystanders. It's a challenging enough situation for those with good vision. Id recommend a dual trained service dog, upgrading her walking stick to something with some oompfh and providing her with martial arts training if she's physically capable. Carry a machete, nunchuks, knives, tazer, stun gun etc. Projectiles in unfamiliar environments will probably end up cause more harm than good & if she is Allowed to get the hcp I think she be running a high risk of liability if she misses. I've seen how blind people can memorize their surroundings & navigate a whole house without bumping into anything so I think some home defense gun would be okay actually. Perhaps someone else will weigh in on law permit/prohibit.

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[Jonnin]

I am almost certain that if she can pass the shooting test, you can find an instructor to give her the test with accomodations. I was at 20/180 when I got my HCP but mine could be corrected via hard contacts to nearly 20/20 (and has since been fixed to 20/20 with lasik). That means I could see the E on the eyechart with my better eye, for reference. Without contacts, I did shoot a few times and I could probably have defended myself, but lord help anyone friendly that got in front of me if it had come to that, I couldnt tell my own dad from the unibomber outside of 2 feet away.

[Guest nicemac]

I can't even see the chart with my right eye. No way I could pass either the written or the range test with that one. My left eye is normal, 20-20. I never thought about vision requirements for the test. Great question.

[Chadastrophic]

I've been told there's 3 or 4 HCP holders in TN who are legally blind. Not sure if it's truth or folklore.

[Guest PapaB]

I'd be more concerned about what would happen if she were involved in a shooting. Can you imagine the lawsuit she'd be subjected to? I used to do volunteer work with the blind so I know how capable they are but that doesn't help your friend. The first time she shows a weapon that sends projectiles, some idiot's gonna sue.

I'd consider what zapfbroad said to be worth considering.

[ttocswob]

If any instructor refuses assistance on the written portion, introduce them to the Americans with Disabilities Act.

As long as the .22 works for her, use it to qualify for the HCP. Self defense calibers can come later. As well as she did on the paper plate, hitting 70% on a B27 target should be a piece of cake.

Range test is more than just hitting the target - make sure she can operate the gun, load and change magazines, etc.

Get the HCP as soon as possible - before/just in case her vision gets any worse. Once qualified, all you have to do is send TN more money every 5 years. Even a totally blind person could shoot an attacker at contact distance.

And I admire your friend in taking responsibility for her own safety.

You guys who are more concerned about liability than life - why, exactly, do you carry?

[peejman]

I haven't seen any gun laws pertaining to visual disabilities. I would probably discourage carrying small arms for protection simply because she would have such a bigger margin for error especially of innocent bystanders. It's a challenging enough situation for those with good vision. Id recommend a dual trained service dog, upgrading her walking stick to something with some oompfh and providing her with martial arts training if she's physically capable. Carry a machete, nunchuks, knives, tazer, stun gun etc. Projectiles in unfamiliar environments will probably end up cause more harm than good & if she is Allowed to get the hcp I think she be running a high risk of liability if she misses. I've seen how blind people can memorize their surroundings & navigate a whole house without bumping into anything so I think some home defense gun would be okay actually. Perhaps someone else will weigh in on law permit/prohibit.

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+1 (mostly). While her liability for misses is no greater than anyone else, its surely to become an issue in court. Home defense? I'll buy that. Actually carrying in public? Not so much. I think a trained dog is the best solution.

[Jonnin]

If any instructor refuses assistance on the written portion, introduce them to the Americans with Disabilities Act.You guys who are more concerned about liability than life - why, exactly, do you carry?

Its a valid concern. Before my eyes were fixed, I had to consider what I would do if someone broke into our home in the night and I could not see who or what I was shooting at in the chaos. I would never say anything to discourage her from having a weapon, esp if she is being stalked or harrassed or the like, but I would not wish upon her the issues created by shooting the wrong person either. At the end of the day, she simply needs to be made aware of these issues and resolve it for herself (which may include some 1 on 1 specialized training). Part of the burden and responsibility of carrying a gun is the liability -- it is not more important, but it is also not unimportant. That is true no matter how well a person can see! I think a person would have to be sort of living under a rock to not consider the lawsuits that can happen if they are forced to use their weapon; that does not mean they should not carry, just that the consequences have been thought about.

[Guest WyattEarp]

The first question I asked here centered around "Target". This question centers around "blind". On a gun forum, these are not good words to do an archive search on. So forgive me if this has been covered although that is doubtful.

I have a friend who is legally blind. She can see contrasts and very, very large print. She has become concerned for her safety and we have been considering her options. OC spray is an option but both of us foresee draw and aim issues. A shotgun in her home is the obvious answer but not the whole answer because she walks everywhere, often alone.

I put her on my makeshift range out at my farm to see what would happen. Straight out of the gate with a Mark III she put 7 of 10 in a white paper plate at 7 yards with a dark soil background. She stayed consistent at that range through 100 rounds. .38 and 9mm were different stories. Baby steps. (actually she did ok with single action)

Next weekend i will work with her on silhouette targets and the Mark III. I'm almost certain that in a few sessions she will be able to stay on paper at 15 yards with a small caliber pistol or revolver, larger than .22LR.

I am 100% certain that she won't be able to see the written test without accommodations. Will instructors make allowances for this? Hell, does TN gun law even cover vision impairment? In the dark I wouldn't have much of an advantage and in the dark without my contacts in, she would have a definite advantage.

Or do I just focus on a shotgun and Less than Lethal instruction?

Some people say I get wordy...

20/20 in my left, 20/400 in my right, im legally blind in my right eye, i can hardly read anything with my right unless it's 12" or less to my face, and I shot 42/48 on the shooting test. so i guess fwiw, if she can pass the shooting test it won't be a problem.

my vision is corrected to 20/40 with a single contact lens (which i was not wearing the day of my shooting test).