Question about sawed off shotguns

[Makiaveli]

I tried to search for sawed-off shotguns but didn't find an answer to this question. Where would I go to get information on what is legal and what isn't, both federally and in TN? I ask because I know someone who had a sawed-off shotgun that I would like to acquire but we aren't sure it's legal. We don't know who modified it and I surely don't want to bring an illegal firearm into the house.

In short, I want to know what the minimum length is, how to measure it, common mistakes to avoid when measuring etc.

**edit** FTR it's a single shot 20ga. if that matters.

Thanks for any advice...

[Mike]

18" barrel minimum 26" overall.

[Makiaveli]

18" barrel minimum 26" overall.

How do you measure the barrel? Externally or internally etc? I have no experience with this type of thing....from a certain point etc?

[Guest bkelm18]

How do you measure the barrel? Externally or internally etc? I have no experience with this type of thing....from a certain point etc?

Take a wooden rod and stick it down the barrel until it hits the breach face. Mark it at the end of the barrel, remove and measure. If your acquaintance's shotgun is not of legal length, just be aware that it could mean prison time if you or they are caught with it.

Edited August 13, 2011 by bkelm18

[Makiaveli]

Take a wooden rod and stick it down the barrel until it hits the breach face. Mark it at the end of the barrel, remove and measure. If your acquaintance's shotgun is not of legal length, just be aware it's prison time if you or they are caught with it.

Wow that sounds complicated... I will try and see if I can do that!!

Thanks to both of you guys...that was incredibly fast

**edit** And I am aware, the person I am speaking of found it mixed in with some boxes that were legally acquired long story short. Basically if it isn't legal the next step is to either destroy it or find a safe way to turn it in. Neither of us has any desire to add a felony to our resume.

Edited August 13, 2011 by Makiaveli

[DaveTN]

Breech face to the muzzle. On a single shot just open it and measure the length of the barrel.

[Garufa]

Don't forget the 26" overall length part after measuring the barrel...

[Makiaveli]

Don't forget the 26" overall length part after measuring the barrel...

No doubt...that would be my luck.....and the odds of convincing the judge that I honestly forgot.....yea....

[Guest coldblackwind]

Where are you at if you don't mind my asking? If you want I would be happy to measure it for you, I have two class 3 shotguns so I have a pretty good idea how to measure them if you're uncomfortable with it.

[whiskey]

Does the 26" overall apply to all shotguns? What about those with pistol grips? Thanks

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[Oh Shoot]

Does the 26" overall apply to all shotguns? What about those with pistol grips?...

Yes, of course.

Also those with folding/collapsible stocks. Fed allows measurement with stock extended, but some states' laws measure with minimum stock config.

TN's laws mirror federal ones.

- OS

[Guest coldblackwind]

Yes, of course.

Also those with folding/collapsible stocks. Fed allows measurement with stock extended, but some states' laws measure with minimum stock config.

TN's laws mirror federal ones.

- OS

Yup, I have a single shot 12 ga I was gonna cut the barrel to 18" and cut the stock off at the pistol grip, but it would have ended up too short, and I'm not about to pay the transfer on that old pile!

[Alleycat72]

18" barrel minimum 26" overall.

NFA!!! $200 and as short as you like.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Actually a shotgun that came originally from the factory with a pistol grip is not considered a shotgun by GCA/NFA standards. It falls into a gray area and the only requirement a pistol gripped shotgun must meet is the 26" OAL requirement. It is not a rifle, shotgun or a pistol so the rules that apply to those does not apply to shotguns that left the factory with pistol grips. It does not need to be registered as a NFA item so long as the length is at least 26" regardless of barrel length.

http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/testttt20001.pdf

There have been some who have equipped pistol gripped shotguns with shorter than 18" barrels and as long as the OAL is at least 26" they are legal without the need to register it as a NFA weapon. The above link proves it.

This is a legally configured pistol gripped shotgun:

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv330/stuckma09/2009NortheastBloggershoot049.jpg

Because it left the factory as a pistol grip the only requirement is for it to be 26" and the longer than normal pistol grip brings it to the above requirement without the need for NFA registration.

Dolomite

[TNWNGR]

If your friend’s shotgun barrel is too short you might be able to find a replacement barrel that is at least 18” long. It all depends on what you’re dealing with, most Remington, Mossberg, Stevens and Browning pumps and semi autos have used or new barrels that can turn up. Single shot H&R Handy rifles are the same, over and under and side by side shotguns are another story. Another option I’ve seen done is have a fixed Poly choke or other external choke brazed onto the barrel.

[Oh Shoot]

Actually a shotgun that came originally from the factory with a pistol grip is not considered a shotgun by GCA/NFA standards....

Yeah, I forgot about that little niche ruling.

I wonder how that plays in all the thousands of counties across the US when you get stopped with one? Thinking of the guy over in middle TN that had to go through court for the federally classified .223 pistol.

- OS

[Dolomite_supafly]

Problem comes in when the definitions by various jurisdictions differ from the ATF definitions. It is like anything else governed by laws, the laws and rulings differ so much between the different jurisdictions that it is nearly impossible to keep up with all of them whether they are about firearms or not.

Another problem is that most LE aren't familiar with NFA laws or this state's laws governing NFA items. When I worked in LE (I left in 2005) there were officers that argued that silencers and MG's were illegal for anyone other than LE. Not all officers are like this and those that don't know can't be blamed because the NFA laws are confusing to say the least. And then there are the individual rulings that are, without a doubt, impossible to know. The big problem is this, if you try to educate an officer while you are being investigated the officer(s) generally are not very receptive to the idea that a civillian knows the laws. Some take it well and some don't.

Dolomite

[Guest coldblackwind]

Actually a shotgun that came originally from the factory with a pistol grip is not considered a shotgun by GCA/NFA standards. It falls into a gray area and the only requirement a pistol gripped shotgun must meet is the 26" OAL requirement. It is not a rifle, shotgun or a pistol so the rules that apply to those does not apply to shotguns that left the factory with pistol grips. It does not need to be registered as a NFA item so long as the length is at least 26" regardless of barrel length.

http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/testttt20001.pdf

There have been some who have equipped pistol gripped shotguns with shorter than 18" barrels and as long as the OAL is at least 26" they are legal without the need to register it as a NFA weapon. The above link proves it.

This is a legally configured pistol gripped shotgun:

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv330/stuckma09/2009NortheastBloggershoot049.jpg

Because it left the factory as a pistol grip the only requirement is for it to be 26" and the longer than normal pistol grip brings it to the above requirement without the need for NFA registration.

Dolomite

I don't think that is entirely true. Note where it says in no uncertain terms "capable of being concealed on a person" doesn't say it has to actually be concealed. I have a shotgun very similar to the one you linked to and it is registered as an AOW. I'm only 5'5", and I could conceal that if I really felt the desire. Not a $200 transfer (only $5), but its still a class 3 registration as an AOW, and while you could argue you don't need to, I personally wouldn't reccomend trying it.