Conduct of Civil Process Server, Need Some Help.

[Guest WyattEarp]

A civil process server came to my parents door this evening in an attempt to serve them a civil warrant for an outstanding debt.

Since it was dark outside and we were not expecting company, we did not the answer the door (which is always our policy). However, the lights in our livingroom were on, so the guy knew someone was home. He repeatedly rang the door bell, then when no one answered, he began pounding on the door saying.

"Open the ****ing door"

"Come on quit playing ****ing games"

and shouting other obscenities and making threats.

He never once identified himself, never once stated his purpose there. So basically this ******* is at our door acting like a ****ing lunatic, placing my mother and myself in fear because we have no idea what this clown wants, who he is, or what his intentions are.

It ended up scaring my mother, because he was beating on the door so forcefully she thought he might try to end up breaking it down.

The guy wouldn't leave either. Finally my mother called Spring Hill Police, and the dispatcher asked for a description. So I went downstairs to look the through the peep hole and when I did, he said "I can see you through the ****ing peep hole (since our living room light was on it shines through the peep hole and when someone looks through the peephole, it goes black, so you can tell someone is at the door), quit ****ing around and open the god damned ****ing door before I kick the mother****er in." (me, my mother and the neighbors all heard this) and begins pounding on the door non-stop all over again. It was dark, and I wasn't about to turn the porch light on, and couldn't get a get description of him as it was too dark to see.

I did not reply and instead went back upstairs. My dad called about that time and I fill him on whats going on, so he stays on the phone listening to the entire thing from the time the cops came to the front door (Spring Hill PD showed up, there were 3 cops that showed up. 2 male cops, 1 female cop.) as I have the phone in my hand and he's listening.

Incredulously, none of the the dumb **** police officers who arrived on the scene asked this server guy for ID, he's driving plain jane black f-150 regular cab (newer model) they did not run his name or driver's license or license plate. They just asked him what his business was and he said he was a civil process server, serving a civil warrant. The cops just took his word that he was who he said he was, without verifying anything.

The cop asked my mother if she would accept the civil warrant and she said the cop could bring it to her, but she didn't want the process server on her property after the way he was threatening and being verbally abusive towards me and her. The guy then said he never verbally threatened anyone and was not verbally abusive, cop asked me if he did and I said yes he was pounding on the door and threatening to break it down, and swearing at me through the door. The process server's old lady who was in the truck piped up and said we were lying (as if we have any reason to lie, and then call the cops on something that didn't happen ) but the cop told her to shut up and not say another word.

Then the process server says he can have my parents charged with "avoiding process" which is allegedly a misdemeanor ( I don't know if that's true or not), but if you don't identify yourself and your purpose when you come to someone's residence, then a reasonable person can't know that someone is trying to serve them, and there's no law on the books anywhere in the state of Tennessee that I can find, that says myself or any other person is required to open the ****ing door to someone they don't know, who is acting like a madman, pounding on the door incessantly and making threats about "kicking the mother****er in" and becoming verbally abusive, and we have neighbors who witnessed it, all and heard everything. So his little threat of charging my mom and dad with "avoiding process" is bull**** and null and void.

From the guy first knocking on the door to time the cops left, was about an hour long procedure. This guy stood at the front door for a good 25-30 minutes before my mom called the cops when he started becoming verbally abusive.

My dad was on his way home from being out of town working when all this happened, and he's about as furious as I've ever seen him when he got home.

He called Spring Hill PD, asking to talk to the officer on the scene with the highest rank, and asked who the server guy was, and they couldn't tell him because they never ran the license plate, never verified he was a civil process server, didn't run his driver's license. My dad was like, so you have no idea who this guy is, he could be a convicted felon for all you know? The cop was like no, he said he was a civil process server, we took his word for it. (Isn't standard police procedure to verify that people are who they say are by getting their DL, and running their plate?). My dad was like "my wife and son were in fear enough to call you out here, but you didn't think to get this guy's name or drivers license or license plate???? Give me your name, badge # and your supervisor's name please. (Sorry but this sounds like major violation of police procedure.) Any time the cops stop someone, the first they do is run the license plate, get the DL, and Insurance and run it through the system.

The neighbors came over a few minutes after the server and cops left, and said the server came over to their house asking if we were home, or where we could be found, they told him they had no idea, and the neighbors said he was nice to them, but that they heard all the profanity and threats he was making to our front door.

So a few questions

1.) Is there any form of conduct or behavior these process servers have to follow? To me this seems like downright intimidation and harassment, and ultimately out of line behavior.

2.) How do we find out who this process server is and how do we file a complaint or possibly press charges against him and the company he was hired by.

3.) What legal action can we take against the server?

I have searched on google, but I can't see to find anything about the rules/regulations of a private process server's conduct here in Tennessee, but I can't even begin to believe, that there aren't some rules or regulations by which they must abide by.

The only thing I found was this

Tennessee Rules of Civil Procedure, Process Serving Laws - ServeNow.com

and it doesn't talk about their conduct. Just says how and when they can serve the papers. Even more unbelievable, these process servers aren't even required to have a license to be a process server. You have to have one for just about everything else nowadays.

I understand they have a job to do, and so does my mom and dad, but I don't think there's any excuse for this kind of ****ing behavior. Pounding on someone's door, threatening to kick it in, and being verbally abusive at someone's front door is a good way to find yourself looking down the barrel of a loaded handgun, and quite possibly getting yourself shot.

How hard is it to knock on the door, and say "my name is such and such, I'm a private process server serving a civil warrant on an outstanding debt, and I'll be glad to show some id, give you the papers and then I can be on my way."...how hard is that? It would put the person at the residence a bit more at ease, and all these ****ing theatrics and bull**** intimidation tactics could be avoided, they can get the papers served, and go on with life, but instead this ****stick has to take it way out of control.

I would appreciate some input from any LEO's or lawyers on this matter. My dad is not about to let this go, and I don't blame him. Totally uncalled for.

Edited August 13, 2011 by WyattEarp

[Parrothead]

your family handled it well in my opinion. Better than most.....i couldn't tell you any of the laws. If this isn't illegal it should be. Property rights should protect a property owner from harassment--just my opinion.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I don't agree with how the process server may have acted but this could have been all been avoided by your parents.

As far as the officers go, it is their discretion on whether they want to verify someone or take their work for it. There is no police procedure that mandates the officer not use his discretion. They are not required to run everyone they come in contact with and in most cases they need probable cause. A person trying to serve a civil warrant is not probably cause to run someone. The officers did nothing wrong, zero, nil, nothing.

You are misdirecting your anger. The officers are not "dumb ****s" for not doing what you think they should do. Trust me they can probably read people better than you.

And exactly what are you looking to get legally against the process server? In civil court there is nothing you can sue him for. He was there legally, did no damage to your property and from the sounds of it only hurt someone's feelings because he served them. Can't come to court and sue when you are not in the right.

And what criminal laws do you feel he broke that would lead to an arrest at a later date when officers on scene didn't arrest him? I can say none. If the officers on scene felt his actions didn't warrant an arrest you are not going to find another officer or even a DA, if he is a good one, to issue a warrant for his arrest. You can go and try to get a warrant issued yourself but it opens you up to a world of legal issues. It would be easy for his lawyer to say that the server didn't break any laws because the officers didn't arrest him at the scene. This would end with you getting sued and would probably loose.

Now the tactics may have been a little rougher than what you are used to but in the end it isn't the process server's fault he was there. He had a legal right to be there. Also, how would you react if someone refused to pay you the amount owed? Would you just walk away and forget about it, I can say not.

I am just as upset as you but for different reasons. I have paid my bills my entire life and lived within my means. If that meant my family or I had to do without then so be it. I am upset at those in the world who feel it is fine to run up a debt and then walk away leaving the rest of us to pick up the slack by paying higher rates and higher prices. That is what is wrong with the country today. People tried to live beyond their means and got caught. Now they want those who did the right thing to fix the problem.

Dolomite

[Guest clownsdd]

The server was out of line, regardless of the laws, I agree with you in calling the police. When serving papers, I am as nice as I can be. If they ask who it is, I explain I have papers to serve them, and give the name of the attorney signing the papers. I would contact the attorney that signed the papers and complain to him. A lawsuit would not serve a purpose other than if a win would line the attorney's on both sides pockets. That being said, a server doing his job is harassed and threatened on a daily basis, all they are doing is their job and have no say in the outcome. If people would just take them and go about their business, it would be nice. It's usually a stressful time, but don't shoot the messenger. As far as the LEO not running a plate, once he saw the papers, it was totally legit.

[vontar]

The only thing would be, since their was a complaint called in the the investigating officers should have got some information whether or not they found anything wrong. They should have notes, kinda like a reporter, who, what, when, etc, case closed.

EDIT***

Mind you, I know nothing about server papers. I could not look at one and know if it was real or fake and if someone came to my house of a night time trying to server papers I would not open the door either. I would tell them to come back during the day.

***

However, as you described, the server was out of line as well. He could have been civil about it. Also they don't have to show up after dark. (like they say nothing good happens after dark).

I had a car hit parked on the side of the road, I called and ask for a report, the officer told me we might not never find out who did it, I said I understand however I just want a report at this point so a week later my wife don't get blamed for hitting someone else.

Edited August 13, 2011 by vontar

[Guest clownsdd]

Duplicate

Edited August 13, 2011 by clownsdd

[Punisher84]

I don't agree with how the process server may have acted but this could have been all been avoided by your parents.

As far as the officers go, it is their discretion on whether they want to verify someone or take their work for it. There is no police procedure that mandates the officer not use his discretion. They are not required to run everyone they come in contact with and in most cases they need probable cause. A person trying to serve a civil warrant is not probably cause to run someone. The officers did nothing wrong, zero, nil, nothing.

You are misdirecting your anger. The officers are not "dumb ****s" for not doing what you think they should do. Trust me they can probably read people better than you.

And exactly what are you looking to get legally against the process server? In civil court there is nothing you can sue him for. He was there legally, did no damage to your property and from the sounds of it only hurt someone's feelings because he served them. Can't come to court and sue when you are not in the right.

And what criminal laws do you feel he broke that would lead to an arrest at a later date when officers on scene didn't arrest him? I can say none. If the officers on scene felt his actions didn't warrant an arrest you are not going to find another officer or even a DA, if he is a good one, to issue a warrant for his arrest. You can go and try to get a warrant issued yourself but it opens you up to a world of legal issues. It would be easy for his lawyer to say that the server didn't break any laws because the officers didn't arrest him at the scene. This would end with you getting sued and would probably loose.

Now the tactics may have been a little rougher than what you are used to but in the end it isn't the process server's fault he was there. He had a legal right to be there. Also, how would you react if someone refused to pay you the amount owed? Would you just walk away and forget about it, I can say not.

I am just as upset as you but for different reasons. I have paid my bills my entire life and lived within my means. If that meant my family or I had to do without then so be it. I am upset at those in the world who feel it is fine to run up a debt and then walk away leaving the rest of us to pick up the slack by paying higher rates and higher prices. That is what is wrong with the country today. People tried to live beyond their means and got caught. Now they want those who did the right thing to fix the problem.

Dolomite

Wow man do you always talk out of your ass or just when you're behind a computer screen? How do you know his parent's debt has anything to do with living beyond their means? It could be job loss, health issues, anything. You make some pretty big assumptions in your little holier than thou response. People like you piss me the **** off.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Wow man do you always talk out of your ass or just when you're behind a computer screen? How do you know his parent's debt has anything to do with living beyond their means? It could be job loss, health issues, anything. You make some pretty big assumptions in your little holier than thou response. People like you piss me the **** off.

So what exactly don't you agree with?

A debt is a debt regardless of the reason. Having a debt you can't pay is without a doubt caused by living beyond your means. The process server wouldn't be there if they were making payments, even small ones. It is when people refuse to pay that the civil process starts. And it is those refusals that are costing the economy.

Dolomite

[Punisher84]

So what exactly don't you agree with?

A debt is a debt regardless of the reason. Having a debt you can't pay is without a doubt caused by living beyond your means. The process server wouldn't be there if they were making payments, even small ones. It is when people refuse to pay that the civil process starts. And it is those refusals that are costing the economy.

Dolomite

So let's say the debt is for medical bills for his mom and his Dad lost his job and just started working again. That's living beyond your means?

People that do live beyond their means are a problem agreed, but your snippy little attitude towards someone when you don't even know the details is ****. The process server had no reason to act that way and I can promise you if any if the servers I deal with had acted like that they'd be in ****ing cuffs until I found something to charge them with.

[Dolomite_supafly]

So let's say the debt is for medical bills for his mom and his Dad lost his job and just started working again. That's living beyond your means?

People that do live beyond their means are a problem agreed, but your snippy little attitude towards someone when you don't even know the details is ****. The process server had no reason to act that way and I can promise you if any if the servers I deal with had acted like that they'd be in ****ing cuffs until I found something to charge them with.

Had there been a reason for arrest the officers on scene would have arrested him. He was well within the law.

Most creditors will work with you as long as you are making an honest effort. Trust me I have paid for medical care out of pocket because I can't get insurance, they will not send a process server to you house if you are making payments. And in order for me to pay I had to make sacrifices in other parts of my life. In order for a process server to get to your front door you have had to put forth ZERO effort in repaying your debt regardless of what the debt is.

I know people who are paying $10 a month on a bill they will never live to pay off. They do not have process ervers pounding on their doors.

I live on 1/4 of what I did before my helicopter accident. This has lead to some serious changes in how I spend my money. I only spend about 1/10th of what I did before the accident and that is so I can ensure I live within my means.

Dolomite

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Mistaken collections are not impossible.

Off'n'on for a few months collectors have been calling me about large outstanding medical bills apparently racked up by some other feller with a similar name and approximate residential vicinity. Because they can't seem to locate the actual feller who owes the bill, they keep calling me for the money.

I think finally got em convinced that it ain't me, but it wouldn't be impossible to eventually get a server on the front porch over that other guy's debt. If he came at night and acted as WyattEarp reports, I would not be pleased.

[DaveTN]

The cops know who the guy was. But they are not required to give you that info.

I assume you tried to make a complaint at the time and they refused to take it? You can go directly to the DA, but they usually won’t get involved in minor stuff like this.

The Police or the DA can simply contact the people that your parents didn’t pay and find out who they are using for process server.

[Guest WyattEarp]

I don't agree with how the process server may have acted but this could have been all been avoided by your parents.

As far as the officers go, it is their discretion on whether they want to verify someone or take their work for it. There is no police procedure that mandates the officer not use his discretion. They are not required to run everyone they come in contact with and in most cases they need probable cause. A person trying to serve a civil warrant is not probably cause to run someone. The officers did nothing wrong, zero, nil, nothing.

You are misdirecting your anger. The officers are not "dumb ****s" for not doing what you think they should do. Trust me they can probably read people better than you.

And exactly what are you looking to get legally against the process server? In civil court there is nothing you can sue him for. He was there legally, did no damage to your property and from the sounds of it only hurt someone's feelings because he served them. Can't come to court and sue when you are not in the right.

And what criminal laws do you feel he broke that would lead to an arrest at a later date when officers on scene didn't arrest him? I can say none. If the officers on scene felt his actions didn't warrant an arrest you are not going to find another officer or even a DA, if he is a good one, to issue a warrant for his arrest. You can go and try to get a warrant issued yourself but it opens you up to a world of legal issues. It would be easy for his lawyer to say that the server didn't break any laws because the officers didn't arrest him at the scene. This would end with you getting sued and would probably loose.

Now the tactics may have been a little rougher than what you are used to but in the end it isn't the process server's fault he was there. He had a legal right to be there. Also, how would you react if someone refused to pay you the amount owed? Would you just walk away and forget about it, I can say not.

I am just as upset as you but for different reasons. I have paid my bills my entire life and lived within my means. If that meant my family or I had to do without then so be it. I am upset at those in the world who feel it is fine to run up a debt and then walk away leaving the rest of us to pick up the slack by paying higher rates and higher prices. That is what is wrong with the country today. People tried to live beyond their means and got caught. Now they want those who did the right thing to fix the problem.

Dolomite

it's been my experience that anytime the police have been called to a scene by someone, that when they arrive, they get names and verify who they're dealing with. Anytime I've been in a car with someone who got stopped, or been stopped myself, cops have always asked the driver and the passengers for ID. Same thing when police come to someone's house (party, noise complaint, etc) they've always asked for id.

For all anyone knew, this guy could have been a felon trying to exploit my mother and I. Since they didn't verify his identity, he could have handed my mom a blank envelope, then come back a day or two later and shot us both since he knew my father wasn't around, and robbed us. Now that's just a worst case scenario, but I believe that's why t the police should be ID'ing "unknown" people.

all he had was an envelope, he didn't have any official papers, nothing we had to sign for. The envelope just had my dad's name on it and nothing else. So how did the cop even know it was legit??? See what I'm getting at here?? The cops didn't verify anything. They just took this guy's word for it. He showed no id verifying him a civil process server.

Thanks for judging my parents, but my dad lost his job a few years ago, and has been struggling to find work making the same money he was making at the job he lost right after they bought their house. They're doing all they can do. They make too much to file bankruptcy, but they don't make enough to pay anything extra right now.

But I suppose you're just perfect and lead a super blessed life and have never lost your job and then not been able to find one with comparable income. Congrats to you, you're one of the few in this world who've never been late on a bill, or not lost your job.

He didn't hurt our feelings, he scared the living **** out of my mother by standing at our front door for 30 minutes persistently beating on it even though no one is answering it. Who does that? If someone doesn't answer the door, you don't persist. You leave and come back later. We had no obligation to open the door, especially after dark to an unknown person acting like a maniac.

any reasonable 57 year old woman would be scared out of her mind if someone she didn't know is beating on her door, yelling obscenities and threatening to kick the door in. He's lucky I didn't have my handgun, because if I had, I'd have answered the door and ordered him face down on the concrete with his hands on his head until the cops got there and I'd have been within my rights to do so.

His behavior was reckless and placed people in fear for their safety, and there was no call for that whatsoever, and it's just bull****, he needs to be held accountable for his behavior. If my dad had been here, he'd have gone to jail because my dad would have pushed the issue, but my mother doesn't know anything about her rights or the law, is by all means a timid woman, and is easily frightened and intimidated, and so she didn't say anything to the cop, and it's not my property or house, so I had no say so, otherwise I'd have pushed it myself.

The server was out of line, regardless of the laws, I agree with you in calling the police. When serving papers, I am as nice as I can be. If they ask who it is, I explain I have papers to serve them, and give the name of the attorney signing the papers. I would contact the attorney that signed the papers and complain to him. A lawsuit would not serve a purpose other than if a win would line the attorney's on both sides pockets. That being said, a server doing his job is harassed and threatened on a daily basis, all they are doing is their job and have no say in the outcome. If people would just take them and go about their business, it would be nice. It's usually a stressful time, but don't shoot the messenger. As far as the LEO not running a plate, once he saw the papers, it was totally legit.

i've found a few things in the Fair Debt Collection Protection Acts that may help my dad, but most of what I've found doesn't look good, because apparently there are no ethics for these *******s to follow, no code of conduct, no professionalism requirements, looks like some legislators may be getting some letters, as it appears some laws are in need of changing.

But we may be able to pursue criminal trespass, because he was on the porch for 30 minutes, with no one answering the door, and from what I've read, servers have to follow trespass laws very carefully, but still looking into that.

We've had a few other private process servers in the past month show up, and neither of those acted like this guy. They simply left a business card, identifying who they were and requesting my mom or dad to call them to make arrangements, my mother called them, and made arrangements for them to come by and serve the papers peacefully, and it helped put my mom at ease, because she knew who was coming and for what reason and what time to expect them.

The big reason this incident concerns me and my father, is that you hear on the news, someone poses as a salesman or electric guy or whatever, gets someone to open the door and then holds them at gunpoint and robs and/or kills them, and we have heard of cases like this here in Nashville recently. Factor in my dad being out of town, and we live away from the city limits so police response is slow here (it took them 12 minnutes to get here from the time we called last night), makes our house and houses like ours a target.

[Oh Shoot]

.... He's lucky I didn't have my handgun, because if I had, I'd have answered the door and ordered him face down on the concrete with his hands on his head until the cops got there and I'd have been within my rights to do so....

For someone knocking on your door and cursing?

Possible, maybe likely, outcome is that you'd be charged with aggravated assault.

- OS

[DaveTN]

He's lucky I didn't have my handgun, because if I had, I'd have answered the door and ordered him face down on the concrete with his hands on his head until the cops got there and I'd have been within my rights to do so.

You are an emotionally charge young man and it’s a good thing you didn’t have a gun. Nothing happened that elevated that situation to the level of deadly force.

[Guest WyattEarp]

For someone knocking on your door and cursing?

Possible, maybe likely, outcome is that you'd be charged with aggravated assault.

- OS

no, at the point he became hostile and said "I can see you through the ****ing peep hole (since our living room light was on it shines through the peep hole and when someone looks through the peephole, it goes black, so you can tell someone is at the door), quit ****ing around and open the god damned ****ing door before I kick the mother****er in."

why is he threatening to kick our door in? At that point I'm in fear of my safety, as is my mother, he's on our property, he's making threats and acting in a beligerent and persistent manner, and showing no sign of retreating, he has not properly identified himself or stated his purpose, it's after dark. I'll take my chances with a jury thank you very much.

[Glock30]

Wyatt,

For a process server to have served you, you must have accepted his paperwork. If you don't want to answer the door, don't answer it.

As far as these comments about opening the door and ordering him to the ground, that's a stark violation of self-defense law. He has to forcibly enter before you can start issuing orders. You did the correct thing - you called the cops and asked them to intervene.

Being on the other side of the door and being ready for forcible entry is well within your rights.

You have to remember that these guys will use any tactics they can to earn a response from you. I don't condone any of the alleged tactics used in your story. However, keep in mind that you shouldn't escalate the situation to a whole new level by introducing a firearm.

Edited August 13, 2011 by Glock30

[mikegideon]

For someone knocking on your door and cursing?

Possible, maybe likely, outcome is that you'd be charged with aggravated assault.

- OS

Yep. Felony. End of discussion about how you will apply your weapon, because it eliminates the "your" part.

[DaveTN]

I'll take my chances with a jury thank you very much.

That’s crazy talk.

We all remeber Harold Fish.

Fish has his freedom, but he can't recoup the dollars he spent fighting the case. He took out a second mortgage on his house. Relatives did the same with theirs, including his retired father. Fish estimates he spent about $700,000 on legal fees. He expects he'll die before all of it is paid back.

"I can't afford to go to court again," he said. "I cannot withstand another prosecution."

http://stju.blogspot.com/2011/07/man-exonerated-but-still-penalized-by.html

[Guest WyattEarp]

Yep. Felony. End of discussion about how you will apply your weapon, because it eliminates the "your" part.

so you mean to tell me that is someone comes to your door unannounced, you have no idea who they are, and they starting pounding on your door, and cursing and threatening to kick the door in that you're not going to be in fear for your safety or that of your family?

If he was just knocking on the door persistently, no I would not be in fear for my safety. When the threat of kicking the door in and the abusive foul language enters the situation has changed from peaceful to hostile.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I feel sorry for what process servers must put up with doin their job. But discretion would seem the better part of valor for process servers too.

Long ago had a friend who looked like a scrawny little hippy electronic tech. He was also a SF viet nam vet.

He was served divorce papers by an old deputy who did the serving job part time. The old deputy apparently had scant liking for hippies and served the papers in an arrogant pushy fashion. Friend lost his cool and put the deputy in the hospital using only hands and feet.

Friend was wrong to do what he did and he only avoided jail because his dad had political connections. But the deputy brought at least a little bit of it on himself. Never saw my friend act remotely aggressive any time except that one time. That one time got him in a heap of trouble.

[Guest WyattEarp]

this thing is getting way off topic, and we're talking about shoulda, coulda, woulda, instead of the real issue here.

are there standards for process servers to follow or not? Guidelines? regulations? ethics?

I find it hard to believe that any profession of a legal nature, that someone is allowed to just act in this manner, and would like to know what can be done legally and from a professional standpoint (as in his superiors, or the state, or the city).

[DaveTN]

so you mean to tell me that is someone comes to your door unannounced, you have no idea who they are, and they starting pounding on your door, and cursing and threatening to kick the door in that you're not going to be in fear for your safety or that of your family?

If he was just knocking on the door persistently, no I would not be in fear for my safety. When the threat of kicking the door in and the abusive foul language enters the situation has changed from peaceful to hostile.

It’s not “someone†it’s a process server. You know that and you don’t want to answer the door because you don’t want your Mother to be served papers.

If you are in fear; you don’t open the door. If he kicks the door in; shoot him.

[Oh Shoot]

so you mean to tell me that is someone comes to your door unannounced, you have no idea who they are, and they starting pounding on your door, and cursing and threatening to kick the door in that you're not going to be in fear for your safety or that of your family?...

Three criteria must be met, the first one alone is clearly not going to pass muster.

"(A) The person has a reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury;"

Unless you can get 12 close friends/relatives on the jury, I don't think knocking and words from a mouth on the outside of the home are going to suffice, Mr. Earp.

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

this thing is getting way off topic, and we're talking about shoulda, coulda, woulda, instead of the real issue here....

YOU took the discussion into that area, Mr. Earp. We're just trying to keep you out of the hoosegow in the future.

- OS