YOU CAN STOP SHOOTING ME NOW! Ok, seriously. Enough with the bullets.

[Guest monkeyhumper]

Guy #1 gets out of his car.

Guy #2 says "This is a holdup, see! Reach for the sky!"

Guy #1 says "BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM!!!"

.25 auto can really leave a mark!

ARTICLE

The worst part of this guy's day wasn't having to shoot someone, it was having to endure the food at Applebee's.

[TGO David]

Jesus... perfect example of why I tell people to leave the mouse guns at home and carry something that will actually do some harm.

[TN-popo]

The bad guy had the .25ACP and it appears that he did not fire it.

News report doesn't say what the good guy shot him with.

Edited August 8, 2011 by TN-popo

[McAllyn]

It says the weapon the would-be robber had was a .25. Doesn't say anything about what the would-be victim used to defend himself. Not in the writeup, anyway. I'd love to find out it was a .45.

Mac

[gnmwilliams]

Wait a minute, it said the robber's gun was a fully loaded .25 cal. Did it ever say what caliber the victim was using?

- Nevermind. Beat me to it.

[MacGyver]

A .380 vs. a .25. That could have gone so wrong in such an epic fashion. Oww. Oww. Quit it. Oww. No you quit it. Oww. Oww.

Applebee's Diner Shoots Mugger - Old Northeast-Downtown St. Pete, FL Patch

At least we can chalk up two for the good guys in Tampa over the last week.

Edited August 8, 2011 by MacGyver

[McAllyn]

A .380 vs. a .25. That could have gone so wrong in such an epic fashion.

.

News report would have been something like "Two men involved in altercation outside an Applebee's. Both showed powder burns on their clothes, and several empty bullet cases were found on the scene."

Mac

[Guest monkeyhumper]

The bad guy had the .25ACP and it appears that he did not fire it.

News report doesn't say what the good guy shot him with.

ACK!

That's what I get for half reading the article / half thinking about what I'm going to post here.

[Caster]

The .25 acp. The next step down from a hand full of rocks.

[Jonnin]

The attempted robbery is the second time in less than a week when an armed robber has been shot by a victim in St. Petersburg. Need to see this number go up and up until its not even news anymore.

[JAB]

It seems that others were correct in that the would-be robber had a .25 and we don't know what the would-be victim had. That said, folks can obviously make all the 'mousegun' comments they want but, at the end of the day, the assailant stopped his activity and the honest citizen walked away unharmed. Therefore, whether he had a .44 or a .22, the would-be victim did his job and his gun did its job, regardless of caliber. The purpose of a self-defense shooting is to stop someone from attacking you/your loved ones not to kill the would-be assailant. Whether or not the assailant dies - as long as he stops his attack - is moot for the purposes of self defense.

[Caster]

It seems that others were correct in that the would-be robber had a .25 and we don't know what the would-be victim had. That said, folks can obviously make all the 'mousegun' comments they want but, at the end of the day, the assailant stopped his activity and the honest citizen walked away unharmed. Therefore, whether he had a .44 or a .22, the would-be victim did his job and his gun did its job, regardless of caliber. The purpose of a self-defense shooting is to stop someone from attacking you/your loved ones not to kill the would-be assailant. Whether or not the assailant dies - as long as he stops his attack - is moot for the purposes of self defense.

Right but a dead perpetrator can't sue or testify in court. ......tell no tales as they say.

[JAB]

Right but a dead perpetrator can't sue or testify in court. ......tell no tales as they say.

If the shooting is a valid, self-defense shooting then there should be nothing for the perp to testify about. If it is ruled a valid, self-defense shooting then TN law goes pretty far in protecting the defender from a civil suit (although not far enough - and, of course, this example happened in Florida.) If it is not a valid, self-defense shooting (or if a local DA decides to railroad the defender for one reason or another) then I'm not sure it would really matter if the perp was around to testify or not. Further, unless you are going to execute the assailant after he is down, there is no guarantee that a 9mm, .45 or anything else is going to kill the would-be perp.

[JAB]

Jesus... perfect example of why I tell people to leave the mouse guns at home and carry something that will actually do some harm.

A wise person once said (posted) in another thread - very recently in fact (bolding for emphasis is mine):

There are some... interesting... beliefs in this thread.

My views on "stopping power" are pretty well documented in these forums, but the high points:

1. Stopping power in handguns is a myth.

1a. If we had a choice, we'd all carry rifles or carbines.

1b. We don't have that option so we carry handguns and make do.

2. Bigger translating into better is a study in diminishing returns.

2a. If given the choice between more or bigger, I'll take more almost every time (within reason).

3. Shot placement = real stopping power. Location, location, location.

4. Always shoot to eliminate the threat.

4a. If elimination means fatality, so be it. I won't start the fight but I intend to survive it.

[Caster]

Yeah, but it should be a given that he was talking about any normal cartridge. Not a bunny fart trapped in a brass case.

[Guest Victor9er]

Yeah, but it should be a given that he was talking about any normal cartridge. Not a bunny fart trapped in a brass case.

:-\

[TN-popo]

That said, folks can obviously make all the 'mousegun' comments they want but, at the end of the day, the assailant stopped his activity and the honest citizen walked away unharmed. Therefore, whether he had a .44 or a .22, the would-be victim did his job and his gun did its job, regardless of caliber. The purpose of a self-defense shooting is to stop someone from attacking you/your loved ones not to kill the would-be assailant. Whether or not the assailant dies - as long as he stops his attack - is moot for the purposes of self defense.

I see what you are saying, but here's a different point of view...

The attacker chose to stop due to weak mindset and the realization that he wasn't victimizing a "sheep."

He had time to say stop shooting me, pull off his mask, and then talk about his "fake" gun after being shot 4 times.

I'm not sure that I'd say that the gun "did it's job."

Not turning this into a caliber war and not saying a different caliber would have had a different outcome.

I've got to see a bunch of people who have been shot...generally, humans are not impressed with being shot with handguns unless there is CNS/brain or heart damage.

It's not important that you hit something, it's important that you hit something important.

It doesn't look like our good guy did.

A "psychological stop" is just luck.

Edited August 8, 2011 by TN-popo

[Guest Lester Weevils]

A .380 vs. a .25. That could have gone so wrong in such an epic fashion. Oww. Oww. Quit it. Oww. No you quit it. Oww. Oww.

That is funny!

[mikegideon]

Yeah, but it should be a given that he was talking about any normal cartridge. Not a bunny fart trapped in a brass case.

LOL. Made my day.

[G27]

Not a bunny fart trapped in a brass case.

Hahahaha, win.

[Guest TresOsos]

I would have thought 4 hits with a .380 would have prompted more of a reaction than quit shooting me.

However it did stop the robbery.

[JeffL]

I would have thought 4 hits with a .380 would have prompted more of a reaction than quit shooting me.

However it did stop the robbery.

I'm not a fan of .380, neither the cartridge or the handguns designed to fire it. Shot placement is key though.

[TGO David]

A wise person once said (posted) in another thread - very recently in fact (bolding for emphasis is mine):

Perfect example of selective attention and/or quoting. Note also I said "If given the choice between more or bigger, I'll take more almost every time (within reason)."

The within reason part was sort of an open ended comment on my part because most folks who have been here a while know that I prefer service calibers in my handguns. Not the Noisy Cricket.

[JAB]

Perfect example of selective attention and/or quoting. Note also I said "If given the choice between more or bigger, I'll take more almost every time (within reason)."

The within reason part was sort of an open ended comment on my part because most folks who have been here a while know that I prefer service calibers in my handguns. Not the Noisy Cricket.

Mostly I was saying that the same logic works when extended to calibers such as a .380. You won't hear me advocating a .22LR as a carry gun unless a person absolutely (and really) can't handle anything else and I don't care how many hogs someone's grandad slaughtered (or more probably stunned - the 'sticking' part lets the animal bleed out and does the actual killing) with a rifle so chambered. I sometimes carry a .22 WMR mini revolver as a BUG but would not consider it a candidate for a main carry gun, either.

However, because of the negligible differences between - or even (as you suggested) the complete lack of - 'stopping power' or hydrostatic shock when discussing handgun calibers, I don't accept that a 9mm Parabellum is great for self defense while a 9mm Kurtz, with good shot placement and proper choice of ammo, might as well be a 'bunny fart'.

Edited August 9, 2011 by JAB

[vontar]

It seems that others were correct in that the would-be robber had a .25 and we don't know what the would-be victim had. That said, folks can obviously make all the 'mousegun' comments they want but, at the end of the day, the assailant stopped his activity and the honest citizen walked away unharmed. Therefore, whether he had a .44 or a .22, the would-be victim did his job and his gun did its job, regardless of caliber. The purpose of a self-defense shooting is to stop someone from attacking you/your loved ones not to kill the would-be assailant. Whether or not the assailant dies - as long as he stops his attack - is moot for the purposes of self defense.

well said.

3. Shot placement = real stopping power. Location, location, location.

4. Always shoot to eliminate the threat.

4a. If elimination means fatality, so be it. I won't start the fight but I intend to survive it.

agreed