China opED on US downgrade

[RobertNashville]

Doubt it, as Very Bad Things would begin around the 50% inflation level, if not before. Money might well be just abandoned as an option by the majority.

This is a unique country, but now without a true national unifying ethos, I would consider any precedents in the world as non sequitur.

- OS

I really mean no offense but that's pretty much the same pattern of thought as "bad things always happen to other people; never to me".

[Oh Shoot]

I really mean no offense but that's pretty much the same pattern of thought as "bad things always happen to other people; never to me".

Did I opine anything to suggest I was somehow immune to chaos?

- OS

[Kenstaroni]

Inflating the currency would be catastrophic, however replacing the currency and claiming such new currency was worth 10x the dollar, now that's a way...lol Either way we are heading down the wrong path. We buy everything from other countries while we have plenty of resources and hard working folks here. Our tax structure hinders the business owner and investor while empowering the lazy leeches who don't work...the solutions are simple, the problem lies in a goverment who would prefer to do the opposite. By weakening the economy and thus the population's spending power, you encourage the social programs and thus the redistribution of wealth..the whole dictorial goal of this administration. The country's aim, it would appear is to send wealth to other countries, be in debt to those countries, then when it's time to pay the bill....humm maybe say we still have our own resources since we just bought yours and left ours alone, we have a baller military, we devalued our currency so much that it's worthless to you anyway, so whatcha going to do about it? That's when things could get a bit hairy...

We aren't as dumb as the goverment would like to think we are....we know what's going on and how simple the solutions are. This debt deal was a joke. Is anyone paying attention to the "super congress" crap that suddenly appeared? Let's give all the power to even less people...it's a bi-partisan organization of a dictatorship...keep your eyes peeled.

NO-BAMA 2012!

Edited August 8, 2011 by Kenstaroni

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I would rather see a more general solution, "No idiots 2012". Unfortunately, there may not be anyone running with a chance of winning, who fits that spec.

We elect a republican idiot, whether RINO idiot or tea party idiot (you know who I'm talkin about) then the badminton birdie will be back in the democratic court for congress/senate by 2014, followed by another commie in the white house by 2016.

[Guest uofmeet]

The Sky is falling, the sky is falling.

We have tons of oil that we are not drilling for. Just wait for everyone else to run out and we are the only ones with some left.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I would rather see a more general solution, "No idiots 2012". Unfortunately, there may not be anyone running with a chance of winning, who fits that spec.

We elect a republican idiot, whether RINO idiot or tea party idiot (you know who I'm talkin about) then the badminton birdie will be back in the democratic court for congress/senate by 2014, followed by another commie in the white house by 2016.

Sounds like you concede there is no solution. Who is not an "idiot" in your opinion?

I see a lack of perception from a lot around here. There are those who like some and

others who like none. Progressive politics has and is still killing this country and I see that

as the problem. It needs to be rooted out of our political system. That may be difficult,

but that's the way I see it. Republicans and Democrats are infected with the disease.

Some of you have your pet "hang on to" items, but the only ones that need to be hung

on to are the ones provided by the Constitution, like protecting the borders, justice, and

that kind of balderdash. The rest of it is fluff and needs to be flushed down the toilet.

Providing all these useless and altruistic "benefits" are only paving the way to armageddon.

Our debt problem is only tyranny on the installment plan and the creditor is thinking about

calling the loan.

You have your choices for idiots and I have mine. We seem to be at a stalemate because

too many around here would rather find fault with one candidate or another based on a

preference chosen by some media outlet, and then someone comes around and blasts that

media outlet for some other silly reason of their own choosing. Hilarious.

Anyway you look at it, some idiot will prevail and might accidently do something right. I know

my preferences and most of you do, too, but until a large enough group agrees on something

that can work, we will stay on the same path.

I'm not going to waste my time promoting who I think would be good for this country because

someone would just come along and pick it to death. Who's right? That's why there is a primary

process. You get behind the best one and do your best to get them elected. Unless you are a

communist, socialist, or other word you select to use, you should use that criteria(and, yes that

includes the RINO's) to rid us of the woes we are in. Chop away at "Cut, Cap and Balance", but

it would have been a step in the right direction if they would have stuck to their guns on it.

All it did was make me want to see primary challenges after that was sacrificed.

If you don't like the Tea Party, so be it. It appears to be the only game in town around by people

who want to make this country go back to basic beliefs in the Constitution. You are missing the point

if you just judge the Tea Partiers votes on this last messy vote. There aren't enough of them around

to affect the change of attitude in Congress that I think we all might like. Our political system is in

the rebuilding process and it takes more than one election cycle.

Our debt problem can be fixed by electing more of the responsible people into office and holding their

feet to the fire. If you don't tell them what's needed, they go on autopilot. Not good. Tell them! We

have to restore our constitutional roots and get rid of the commies, once and for all.

I guess I am a pollyanna. The glass is still half full, you guys. It ain't over, yet.

"Buy American"? I will when that means something again. Until then, I will buy what meets my and

my familys needs, thank you. I just bought a BMW, so sue me.

[DaveTN]

The Sky is falling, the sky is falling.

We have tons of oil that we are not drilling for. Just wait for everyone else to run out and we are the only ones with some left.

None of us will be alive when anyone runs out oil. There is no shortage of oil.

[mikegideon]

None of us will be alive when anyone runs out oil. There is no shortage of oil.

No shortage of BS in the gaseous state either. They feed us one crisis after another to mask the fact that they're screwing us in plain view.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Thanks 6.8 AR

Am not intentionally trying to be a bummer. Maybe I do have too much gloom.

Recent experience shows that political parties can get destroyed quick but if the rival party screws up then a dead party can recover quick too.

I'm libertarian and usually in closer agreement with R's but ain't enthusiastic about either D's or R's.

A case can be made that G.W. Bush almost single-handedly destroyed the R party in less than 6 years. Then he spent the last 2 years pounding nails to make sure the coffin lid was extra-tight. I know it wasn't all Bush's fault and he seems a nice enough fellow. But no law of physics required him to sign virtually all legislation that came to his desk. He could have vetoed most of it and avoided a lot of the mass-disenchantment among independents and the R base. Republicans worked for 20 years to get to a dominant position to have Bush pee it away in only a few years.

Now we see Obama in the process of almost single-handedly destroying the democrat party. With plenty of help from D congresscritters of course.

If the D's manage to self-destruct enough to elect R's in 2012 then R talking heads will crow that our problems are solved and the USA will remain R until the end of time. Just like, after electing the messiah, D's bragged that the nation is saved and the USA will be D until the end of time.

If "our team" goes on the field and calls the wrong plays and fumbles the ball, then the D's will recover just as fast as the R's recovered in the last 2 years. The american people are fickle and have very short memory. By 2016 we may have Speaker of the House Alan Grayson, Senate Majority Leader Al Franken, and President Van Jones.

If "our team" gets the ball they have got to do everything right. No mistakes.

There have been threads here about our newly-elected R state politicians wasting their time doing dumb irrelevant stuff. That's what I'm talkin about. Neither pleasing D or I voters, and simultaneously annoying much of the R base.

Ferinstance I don't give a dern about NPR or Planned Parenthood one way or t'other. It just doesn't matter. But our new-elected R's in congress spent a bunch of time on NPR and Planned Parenthood when completely eliminating funding for both would only solve about 0.001 percent of our deficit. Simultaneously making enemies of millions who will contribute, campaign, and vote just to save their tiny pet federal expenditure. A lot of those enemies are probably fiscally conservative and we would be better to have them on our side.

An R president who campaigns on balancing the budget then gets in office and spends most of the time on stoopid don't-care trivial issues, will doom us to President Van Jones in 2016.

A RINO R president who goes along to get along will kill the R base enthusiasm and the D's would rather have an honest commie rather than a RINO any day of the week.

Whoever gets in has got to go after the big-dollar items and COMPLETELY IGNORE the tiny stuff that only gains us millions of enemies.

[Guest nicemac]

RE:"Whoever gets in has got to go after the big-dollar items and COMPLETELY IGNORE the tiny stuff that only gains us millions of enemies."

But thousands of the "tiny things" like NPR and its $400 million budget add up to the budget mess we are in now. If you take care of the little things, the big things will take care of themselves.

[mav]

RE:"Whoever gets in has got to go after the big-dollar items and COMPLETELY IGNORE the tiny stuff that only gains us millions of enemies."

But thousands of the "tiny things" like NPR and its $400 million budget add up to the budget mess we are in now. If you take care of the little things, the big things will take care of themselves.

I disagree with you both. Lester, do you think the socialists will be more mad about, reforms to social security, medicare/medicaid, or defunding NPR? Nicemac, while I do understand your intent, cutting all the small stuff will in no way fix the situation we are in. The big stuff will not take care of itself. Everything has to be on the table. We will have to eliminate some programs entirely. Planned parenthood and NPR amongst others would be on my list to totally defund. If the people want those programs, then let the private sector fund them.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

RE:"Whoever gets in has got to go after the big-dollar items and COMPLETELY IGNORE the tiny stuff that only gains us millions of enemies."

But thousands of the "tiny things" like NPR and its $400 million budget add up to the budget mess we are in now. If you take care of the little things, the big things will take care of themselves.

Hi nicemac

You may be correct, but some tiny programs have more public support than other tiny programs. For instance if a cute dolphin gets caught in the net then most people feel bad. If a tuna gets caught in the net, not so much.

Kill the tiny programs with the smallest number of supporters who care enough to contribute, campaign, and vote against us. So that we can cut the budget without getting voted out of office next election. Wipe out subsidies for the Southwestern Toothpick Manufacturers Assn or whatever. There are many items that can be killed that won't make many enemies.

Here is a silly example-- The EPA (Employment Prevention Agency) is arguably crippling our industries. But even R's don't like breathing poison, so it can't realistically be completely abolished. Sure you can abolish it, but then next time a chemical factory gas leak kills some kids at grade school or whatever, you get voted out and the EPA is back stronger than before.

To cut the EPA and grow jobs, we are gonna make millions of tree-hugger enemies. Those enemies are unavoidable if we cut EPA. If we had also abolished Planned Parenthood and NPR, then all the PP and NPR new enemies will ally themselves with the treehugger enemies and vote us out.

Since the PP and NPR expenditures are so tiny and the benefit of trimming EPA so great, we could probably come out ahead doubling PP and NPR budgets (making friends), while at the same time applying giant bolt cutters to the EPA's nuts. Possibly gain millions of new jobs (and needed revenue and public good will) for only a tiny increase funding of silly stoopid but popular programs.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Lester Weevils

[Guest nicemac]

My point is that if we had a mentality that eliminated an unnecessary pesky half-billion dollar program here and a billion dollar program there, the big ones would be easier to work on. It is the attitude (of cutting), not the half-billion saved.

Yeah, I talking about a half billion being small like my little brain can even come close to comprehending what a billion really is.

Edited August 8, 2011 by nicemac

[Guest nicemac]

The thing is Lester, the tree huggers and the NPR fans and the Planned Parenthood bunch et al, are all the same people! We p1$$ off the same people when any/all of these programs get deleted.

[Guest nicemac]

Everything has to be on the table. We will have to eliminate some programs entirely. Planned parenthood and NPR amongst others would be on my list to totally defund. If the people want those programs, then let the private sector fund them.

I agree with you.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Lester. I didn't mean to point a finger at you. I just used your post as an intro

to what I had to say. I usually start typing and get wound up at the situation.

Otherwise, like mav, et al have said. Everything has to be on the table. I don't really care

whether it pisses off tree huggers or not. I usually do that, anyway.

If you recall the American Revolution, it wasn't exactly what you could call an

absolute majority of the folks that got involved in it. Just pissed off enough to

get the job done. There were more than their share of dissenters in that little

war, too.

This is coming to the point of becoming a war if things don't change, and I don't

mean the kind of change that Obama does, at all. I'm close enough to retirement

to be effected by cuts in Medicare and the like and I don't really care if it exists,

because it is shot to Hell already. I'll take my chances other ways.

The way the Dow is dropping and Gold is soaring, you might think those nitwits in

D.C. might realize what they've done and undo the crap they postured so hard to

cram down our throats. The proof is in the actions of our dear leader. He pushed us

over the edge and now what? I'd say an old fashioned coup might be in order.

blame it on Bush, my ass.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

The trouble with relating to a small program or a large program is that it

should have to be constitutional, or consider killing it. "Size matters" is

way overstated.

You don't use military spending as a benchmark, which is the first thing on their

"super committee" before anything else. That is crap. Besides, this super sized

stupidity they agreed to is probably as unconstitutional as the social programs

they plan to protect.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Hey Lester, I'm not enthusiastic about R' and D's, either. I want to make my side

start acting more responsible, instead of this pansy-assed deal making stuff that

never is worth the paper it is written on. If the R's don't come around, I'll be happy

to see another party emerge. It will probably happen, soon. I gave up on the D's

(socialist criminals since forever) a long time ago.

[Guest Zombie-Hunter]

.

Nice Posting A.R. I'd like to add a few things to this thread.......

Open your eyes. Look around.

Debt as far as the eye can see. No sign of any "recovery" - unemployment numbers are gamed, inflation numbers are rigged, tens of trillions to hundreds of trillions of future promises/obligations, bailout after bailout, a ridiculously ineffective and downright ignorant "budget deal", Europe in the ****ter, dollar falling off the edge, 46 million on food stamps, how many tens of millions on unemployment (??) ... and they want to keep spending more?

Nope. Not "hard to buy gold" at all

&

‪Ron Paul was right! 1998-2002 predictions‬‏ - YouTube

[Guest 6.8 AR]

It's amazing that some call him a loon, isn't it?

But, I still like Beck, Rush and all those "out for profit" guys that give their views.

They are loons to some around here.

"Open your eyes. Look around." It would be nice if more did just that.

[mikegideon]

Glen is pretty much bug-eyed crazy. Doesn't mean he's 100% wrong.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I agree on the bug eye crazy. It does take a Barbra Streisand filter to listen to him.

Well, actually it does for all of them. I didn't listen to Rush today, but the other day

he was so wound up and mad at himself, he called himself a sap for buying into what

the R's did. If that says anything.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

My two favorites of the current crop are Ron Paul and Herman Cain. Am less fond of Cain than earlier, because he repeats himself a little too much, speaks in generalities a little too much, and makes a few too many self-references. On the other hand all candidates have to repeat themselves constantly and most presidents have been more egotistical than Cain.

Its not that Cain talks about himself too much, but for instance Ron Paul talks about himself almost never. It doesn't matter if they appear "stuck up" or whatever. We just do not get good mileage out of self-involved politicians.

The others do not look competent to do much more than keep the seat warm in the oval office for the next D president in 2016. I would be delighted if proved wrong.

Maybe a modest improvement we can hold onto is better than a temporary huge change. But I'm contradicting myself because Ron Paul would be the biggest change of any of the candidates.

D's been trying to cram as much as possible down R's throats in 4 years come hell or high water. If R's get the golden ring in 2012 and idealistically reverse the last 4 years then cram as much possible down D's throats until 2016, then in 2016 it will be the D's turn again. If that is the game then it is a football game with each side trying to drive as far possible to the end zone in 4 years.

Tell me how many people will risk doing business in a country that is ad infinitum alternately 4 years of Karl Marx followed by 4 years of Ayn Rand?

======

There is some overlap, but I don't think treehugger voters are guaranteed the same as NPR or PP voters.

Are pro-gun voters the same as anti-abortion voters? Am guessing maybe a 50/50 overlap. Are audit-the-fed voters the same as pro-prayer-in-school voters? Am guessing less than a 50/50 overlap.

Some folks the only way to get em out of the easy chair on election day is to threaten gun rights. The easy chair wins on any other issue. Same way with all the pet issues. Some folks might not care about guns or the EPA, but you better not cut the Public Library!

There are personally fiscal responsible people in all these groups. Hardly anyone is completely free of all socialistic thought and hardly anyone does not have a pet gov program. Ferinstance the only way to get alliance between financially responsible pro-gunners and financially responsible anti-gunners is to call cease-fire on the gun issue so we can balance the budget. Armistice on both sides. Neither repeal current gun law or write new gun law until more important biz is took care of.

Rather than picking and choosing which programs to slash, perhaps the way to make the least enemies is to cut everything exactly across the board. No one could get their panties in a wad because their pet program got cut more than somebody else's pet program.

How do you decide whether NPR funding is more or less important than mandatory school abstinence courses? How do you decide whether gov funding to a secular charity is more or less important than gov funding to a religious charity? Maybe just starve em all in equal proportion.

On the other hand, maybe across-the-board would be the way to make the MOST enemies.

[JayC]

Way to rosy of a picture you're painting there... you have to figure in unfunded liabilities which are not counted as current debt. Even if we stopped over spending today and just pay what we've promised to seniors, we're 130T-ish in the hole.

That is a little over $1 million per tax payer.... If we stopped spending money on anything else (including national defense) and only tried to pay down the debt and commitments we've made, it would take us 59+ years as a country, not including the interest due on the debt between now and then.

It's not fixable, unless we're willing to drastically change as a country. 14% of the population works for the government (federal, state and local). They'll riot in the streets when you start taking away their comfy for life jobs... and that doesn't even count what happens when we cut grandpa and grandma off with no social security or medicare.

Yeah...you are right and wrong...we've already got a national debt of $14.5Trillion; add another 10 Trillion over ten years (based on the legislation just passed last week) and we are looking at a national debt of around $24.5 Trillion which, as I said before, doesn't include any accrued interest and assumes the "cuts" the bill proposed actually do happen (look me up because if those cuts really do happen I'll happily buy you a keg of your favorite brew).

Ultimately, I had too many zeros...the bill comes out to only about $70,000 per individual...very true, not as bad as what I was suggesting but still out of the range of most people's budgets; especially when you consider that's everyone of any age.

It's even worse if you divide just the current debt by the number of actual taxpayers...that bill is already over $130,000 per.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Why are the Chinese ticked? Their Golden Goose has stopped laying golden eggs.

China has been using US policy and Currency against the US for decades. The concept of "World Trade" and "Free Trade Agreements" have mostly benefited them.

They own a lot of US debt, as it used to be one of the best investments out there. Now that investment wont return as much as they want.

China has been actively keeping the value of their money less, to ensure US companies use them to build our products and move our manufacturing there. Now that is in question, as the Dollar's devaluation from the lower credit rating will ruin their ability to push inflation away.

In other words, they are ticked cause we just ruined their cash cow...