Downgraded.

[TGO David]

keep a truck for 14 years then tell me if it's worthwhile. I am not 100% sure but you have not kept a vehicle for more than two years since i have been here, not sure how your opinion on quality is valid.

I'm not sure how your opinion of my opinion is valid either.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Lol this place is so much fun :-)

[mikegideon]

Well, it looks like the WH and the statists are already shifting the blame. They are saying the downgrade was the fault of Bush and the Tea Party. While I am not surprised by this in the least, I am somewhat stunned at how many people actually believe it.

Question. Why do you think there are so many people who cannot or will not see that a lot of this mess was brought on by the government? Is it because almost half the population is having their life/livelihood subsidized by the government?

The downgrade was because of Congress, and their inability to come up with a plan. In fact, you can blame them for ALL of it. Nothing got spent without their approval. Everbody is doing blame shifting. it's easier than doing the job.

Edited August 7, 2011 by mikegideon

[mikegideon]

Lol this place is so much fun :-)

No fun allowed here. You need to go consume some pundit blather, so you can be really pissed off at whoever the pundit doesn't like.

[Mike.357]

I'm not sure how your opinion of my opinion is valid either.

it's not, but for Gods sake keep a vehicle for a few years! LOL and I would sell my worthless soul for a Raptor.

[mav]

The downgrade was because of Congress, and their inability to come up with a plan. In fact, you can blame them for ALL of it. Nothing got spent without their approval. Everbody is doing blame shifting. it's easier than doing the job.

I understand all of that. What I don't understand is why some many people, including some on this forum, cannot see it or refuse to see it?

[Mike.357]

No fun allowed here. You need to go consume some pundit blather, so you can be really pissed off at whoever the pundit doesn't like.

hammer on head. Blame this guy, blame that party. Heck blame Fox or MSCBS. Tehy are all lying jerks.

That failing blame TGODavid.

[mikegideon]

There's a big shell game for our benefit. People tend to watch their favorite shell. We need managers in Washington. Instead, we get lawyers. No president has the power to fix that.

[DaveTN]

Well, it looks like the WH and the statists are already shifting the blame. They are saying the downgrade was the fault of Bush and the Tea Party. While I am not surprised by this in the least, I am somewhat stunned at how many people actually believe it.

Question. Why do you think there are so many people who cannot or will not see that a lot of this mess was brought on by the government? Is it because almost half the population is having their life/livelihood subsidized by the government?

I understand all of that. What I don't understand is why some many people, including some on this forum, cannot see it or refuse to see it?

Because you are wrong.

If you believe you are right then you must also believe that the government could get us out of this mess if they chose to do so. Correct?

I’m sure no fan of the government or politicians, but you surely can’t say this is totally the governments fault. Can you?

[Mike.357]

No president has the power to fix that.

you can't fire the team, you f ire the manager. His team is all lawyers, he is guilty.

[mikegideon]

you can't fire the team, you f ire the manager. His team is all lawyers, he is guilty.

Congress is all lawyers. Congress has to fix it. Obama didn't hire those folks... we did.

[TGO David]

it's not, but for Gods sake keep a vehicle for a few years! LOL

Fair enough. I don't see the Raptor going anywhere anytime soon. My wife has already called dibs if I get tired of it.

[Mike.357]

Fair enough. I don't see the Raptor going anywhere anytime soon. My wife has already called dibs if I get tired of it.

I'll call BS now, you go through vehicles like Il Duce goes through guns, LOL

[G27]

Oh :bs:you weren’t even old enough to drive the last time a foreign company made a higher quality car than us.

Whatever. When we bought both our Hondas, ONLY they and Toyota had 5* crash test ratings from the NHSTA and the highest ratings from the IIHS in the vehicle type we wanted - the domestic brands weren't as safe.

You can prattle on about US cars being as good - and there likely are some that would qualify today - but in 2003 and 2007 (when we purchased ours), NO domestic brand vehicles in the type we bought were as safe as the Japanese vehicles. That's not opinion.

[Il Duce]

I'll call BS now, you go through vehicles like Il Duce goes through guns, LOL

I see what you did there.....A$$ LOL

[mav]

I’m sure no fan of the government or politicians, but you surely can’t say this is totally the governments fault. Can you?

Put on your reading glasses and reread my post. I think I stated "a lot of this mess was brought on by the government." A lot doesn't mean the same thing as totally.

No, I do not thnk the government can get us out of this mess entirely. However, the government can balance their budget for starters. That will fix some things right there. Then the government can get out of the way and not hinder businesses by reducing regulations (you do realize that the EPA is wanting to implement regulations that deal with climate change and carbon emissions - do you know how costly that will be) and lowering the corporate tax rate amongst other things. If the government will create an environment that is conducive for growth, then it becomes the job of the american public and businesses to put us back on a firm footing.

I won't debate this issue with you because there is no possible way that I could ever cause you to rethink your position, and vice versa. We are at an impasse, so it would be futile to continue.

Edited August 7, 2011 by mav
I suck at typing.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I'm not quite sure about the population crash notion. Sure, you an argue carrying capacity and all and imagine that at some point it there has to be a huge crash in the population of folks on earth. Thing is, you're already seeing it and it doesn't seem that bad.

Last time I checked the population was changing from rural to urban ( I think this is US crossed the fifty percent mark few years ago). Which wouldn't seem to matter, a person is a person and a burden on the environment after all. But it turns out it is germane.

In rural settings children are a resource. If you have fourteen kids that is fourteen illegal immigrants you don't have to hire to get crops from the field to the table. In an urban setting children are more or less leeches. It sounds terrible and all but that is the way it is. Sure, you can give them a can of endust and jobs but all you can really replace is a maid. And the kids do a crap job anyway...

So people in urban settings, which is an ever growing number of people, have less kids than necessary for population replacement. I have heard, but no versified, that the US would have negative population growth if not for immigration. Japan, I believe already has negative population growth. Same with Russia.

Those are good ideas, Lostpass!

After? That part doesn't concern me.

Actually, though I do postulate "biblical" magnitudes of kill off, it will of course be far from "end of the world". Short of a natural worldwide physical cataclysm (that special asteroid/comet which logically will again hit, super-volcano, sun flare, etc), or some sort of nuclear self-snuff, humans as a species are almost as resilient as cockroaches.

Hi OS

I agree. Population crash just makes too much mathematical sense. It stands to reason its gotta happen sooner or later and therefore the concept has seduced so many for so long.

The Reverend Malthus seemed wise to take the stance of "the doctor says it will kill you but he don't say when." That way, though it hasn't happened yet, after 2 centuries Malthus has not been unambiguously proved incorrect. Quite a cheerful optimistic fellow--

"The power of population is so superior to the power of the earth to produce subsistence for man, that premature death must in some shape or other visit the human race. The vices of mankind are active and able ministers of depopulation. They are the precursors in the great army of destruction, and often finish the dreadful work themselves. But should they fail in this war of extermination, sickly seasons, epidemics, pestilence, and plague advance in terrific array, and sweep off their thousands and tens of thousands. Should success be still incomplete, gigantic inevitable famine stalks in the rear, and with one mighty blow levels the population with the food of the world".

On the other hand it seems that Paul Ehrlich has repeatedly made the mistake of doom predictions within his own lifetime. That would have to be scientifically embarrassing even if ultimately proved correct in results but wrong on time frame. A bitter disappointment to make grim predictions and then everybody doesn't die on schedule like they's sposed to.

Up til now, every recent "inevitable population crash" has been averted by technological advance. Lostpass may be correct that the population MAY spontaneously diminish before it grows to the point that they fail to pull a new technogical rabbit out of the hat in time to save our bacon. Everything has to work just right for another hundred years. They really ought to speed up the work on fusion power. Practical fusion power has only been a decade away since the 1950's. Tougher problem than expected.

OTOH if some event interferes with the current level of technology for even a year or two, then we will see the population crash fer sure. Doesn't seem likely that we can feed the current population using ox and cart agriculture.

[DaveTN]

I won't debate this issue with you because there is no possible way that I could ever cause you to rethink your position, and vice versa. We are at an impasse, so it would be futile to continue.

Nope, too late now, you have changed my mind. I agree it’s all the governments fault.

I feel better already.

[mikegideon]

I see what you did there.....A$$ LOL

Mike was exagerating. David doesn't trade vehicles twice a week.

[Mike.357]

Mike was exagerating. David doesn't trade vehicles twice a week.

I see what YOU did there

[Worriedman]

I have a '94 Camry that has 345,000+ miles on it, and a 2000 Tacoma with 310,000 miles to date, both American made. My Dad (at 87) has a '72 Datsun that he still drives. My daughter is still driving my '89 Tacoma, which currently has over 400k on it. Owning the riceburners allows me to save up and pay cash for my vehicles, and I try to get the best value for my hard earned dollar.

I owned a small fleet of trucks which we used in the concrete business in the late 70's and early 80's, I quit buying GM and Ford products, because they would not last over 100K miles.

[Mr. Brooks]

No such thing as an '89 Tacoma.

[Worriedman]

No such thing as an '89 Tacoma.

'89 Toyota SR5 then, has the extended cab with the torture seats in the back. Black with the silver stripes down the side, V-6, replaced the '83 that I sold to Toyota service manager in Ft. Worth when I bought the '89 (he is still driving to work), is a fine looking vehicle and still on the road.

[Mr. Brooks]

Just giving you a hard time. I like the older Toyota pickups and have a '97 Tacoma myself. It only has 230k though, just getting broken in.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Today there have been many shoot the messenger articles. Criticism of S&P for numerous previous mistakes where companies received high ratings up to the brink of catastrophic failure. Enron, Worldcom, Bear Sterns, Lehman, Citigroup, Derivatives, Credit Swaps, Toxic Assets, yadda yadda.

I am completely ignorant of such financial details. Perhaps such criticism is intended to prove that S&P is so stupid that the USA downgrade is an undeserved mistake.

But it brings to mind a simpler explanation-- If S&P repeatedly over-rates companies-- If S&P missed all those earlier at-risk situations until it was too late-- Then maybe S&P has made the same mistake with the USA?

If the typical nature of an S&P error is to score too high, then maybe the USA is much closer to the brink than we think, and S&P ought to have issued a downgrade many years ago?