AR 556/223 info

[Guest GunTroll]

So while I'm not the biggest fan of the AR I have one , again. I'm beginning to load up on ammo for it. I am curious about a few things that some of you more experienced AR reloads have already figured out.

Again all these questions have to do with an AR in mind. These reloads I'm doing aren't intended for hunting animals or target practise.

1) tell me about crimping. Roll, taper, or forget it altogether/waste of time.

2) COAL (mag limitations in mind) Do you just go with bullet man suggestion/recommendation?

3) best bullet

4) sealing? is it worth it seeing how you can never foresee field conditions? What do you use? Nail polish or "sealer"?

Thanks!

[Caster]

*Crimp with a Lee factory crimp die. I load SHTF ammo, not super duper match ammo, so I crimp everything.

*OAL max depends on the bullet design, I like an SS109 and 2.250 works perfect for me.

*It's hard to beat the 62g ss109 though they may penetrate too much depending on application. The bullet you use also depends on the twist of your barrel. I like 1/7 barrels and I use not only the 62g but a 75g HPBT. Both are pretty awesome in the performance and accuracy department. A vast improvement over the 55g FMJ.

*I used to play with sealing but honestly....nah. I mean if you really think it may come to crawling through trenches for you, sure go for it, but I think it's just not necessary.

The current load I have been cranking out is the 62g ss109 over 24g of either AA 2520 or surplus WC846. I'm EXTREMELY happy with 24g of 846.

[bigwakes]

My buddy loads my SS109s with WC846 as well. We found some surplus pulled 62gr penetrators for $70/1000. Not gonna be match ammo, but should punch a nice hole in a zombie should the time come. I'll find out what his load is with WC846.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I have shot a lot of reloads out of my AR. In the begining I did crimp but decided it was a waste of time. I also belive that sealing it is also a waste of time. Crimping does increase pressures and in turn increases velocity but for me it wasn;t worth the extra step, I'll just make up the difference with more powder.

When I reload I use a Lee collet sizer to size the neck and a Redding body die to size the body. By seperating the two steps it allows you save the brass from uneeded work hardening. Something else I did was chuck the mandrel that sizes the neck into a drill and took off a few thousansands. This creates a much tighter neck to hold onto the bullet and I have never had a bullet get set back.

If you want the best of all worlds load some heavy Sierra SMK's. I personally load a heavy bullet. It is a 69 grain bullet and have found that in my small amount of testing it does as well as green tip's in defeating hard targets because if its extra weight. In soft targets it does just as good if not better. The reason is because it has a very thin jacket that allows the bullet to come apart easily upon impact with soft targets. Another reason is it holds more of its weight in the rear so it will try to tumble quicker providing your twist rates are good for it. And finally they are very, very consistent which leads to great accuracy. I use them in a 9 twist barrel and it will hold 1/2" groups. Even using lighter weight bullets the SMK's are devastating on soft targets, again because it comes apart so readily from the thin jacket. The donwnside is cost, they run about $20/100 but if you are loading for a "what if" scenario then it doesn't seem all that bad to me. And for me accuracy is more important than cost when you are loading ammunition that you hope you never have to save your life with.

Whatever you do choose pick a bullet that is suited to your twist rate. This helps the bullet tumble which in turn helps it performance. If the bullet won't tumble because it is over stabilized and it doesn't have enough velocity for the bullet to come apart upon impact then it is nothing more than a .22. Up to 70 grain for a 9 twist barrel, up to 80 grain for 8 twist and up to 90 for 7 twist. You want your bullet weight the highest you can load for your twist. Only problem is with a 7 twist the heaviest you can go is 80 grain because it is impossible to load 90 grainers to magazine length.

Here is a good read on the effects of twist rates and the M855:

http://stevespages.com/pdf/5_56mm_military_info.pdf

As far as powders go I use either Varget or H335 depending on what I am loading. The Varget works well on heavier bullets while the H335 works better for light weight bullets. The biggest reason I like Varget is it is impossible to get enough in the 223 case to cause damage. I recommend it to anyone who is starting to reload the 223 because of this. Some of the spherical powders can cause some serious issues if you aren't careful.

Everyone has their preferences of what works well in the 223. And I think it is because it is a very forgiving round. It is also a very versatile round because of all the choices of components available for it.

Dolomite

[gregintenn]

You can buy them for $5 per box. I dedicate my loading time to more expensive, hard to find ammo.

[Caster]

You can buy them for $5 per box. I dedicate my loading time to more expensive, hard to find ammo.

Well, you're kinda right, but try buying match grade ammo in heavy weight bullets and that price goes up exponentially. The $5 per box stuff? You may as well be blastin with an AK because the quality is about the same.

[gregintenn]

Well, you're kinda right, but try buying match grade ammo in heavy weight bullets and that price goes up exponentially. The $5 per box stuff? You may as well be blastin with an AK because the quality is about the same.

You are correct, sir.

[Jonnin]

So while I'm not the biggest fan of the AR I have one , again. I'm beginning to load up on ammo for it. I am curious about a few things that some of you more experienced AR reloads have already figured out.Again all these questions have to do with an AR in mind. These reloads I'm doing aren't intended for hunting animals or target practise. 1) tell me about crimping. Roll, taper, or forget it altogether/waste of time.2) COAL (mag limitations in mind) Do you just go with bullet man suggestion/recommendation?3) best bullet4) sealing? is it worth it seeing how you can never foresee field conditions? What do you use? Nail polish or "sealer"?Thanks!

1) You need a slight crimp IMHO to avoid knocking the bullet deeper into the case when it feeds. I crimp with whatever came with my die set, its a lee taper I guess, not 100% sure but its enough to do the job.

2) I run the lee hand trimmer, so whatever length the case is after that stops cutting.

3) For what? I use whatever I can get cheap, 55 grains mostly for my 1/9 twist barrel.

4) I do not bother. What exactly are you going to be DOING again?? I just shoot mine. I mean, if its getting wet enough to misfire in your magazines or ammo boxes, you are either swimming or need better magazines and ammo boxes. If you are swimming with your AR, yes, seal your ammo. If you are just out in the rain, buy a plastic box to hold the ammo and magazines.

[Guest GunTroll]

Thanks all.

to clarify...

I have a 1-9 16 inch. I know the weight limitations but was asking more about bullet construction for soft "human like as in zombie targets" . I also am a SHTF loader for this rifle. AR's aren't my thing but its hard to beat when it comes to availability of parts and ammo. I'm crimping I decided. As for sealing...my tin hat is on tight these days and I couldn't rule out a swim in the future. The COAL question has been answered. I'm going with manf. specs to fit all chambers and all mags. This is a short to medium range rifle so I have some tolerances that are forgiving as far as accuracy is concerned.

Thanks again.

[Caster]

Guntroll, I can't find a deal on them anymore, but I used to buy a Prvi 50g softpoint from the reloaders bench for my 1/9 AR. They actually grouped VERY tight, but what was impressive is the fact that they were atomic-bomb-like explosive. This is nasty I know, but there was a dead horse on the farm I shoot at occasionally, It made a nice chunk of meat for some test shots. They didn't penetrate deep, but the initial damage....all I can say is eeeewwwww!!!! Nasty! Would give near hollywood results on a Zombie head. Not quite the actual movie like explosion, but awful close. Just for thought.

[glockster157]

I have used a lot of different loads over the years but I have yet to find a better powder for the 223 than WW 748. I use 27.5 to 28 grains with most 55 grain bullets and standard primers. As to crimping, I think it depends on bullet design and use. For standard 55 grain FMJ's with a cannelure I would use either a standard roll crimp or a Lee factory collet crimp. For the better bullets with no cannelure, a Lee collet crimp or I have polished down the neck expander slightly and just use the neck tension. I have found with a good tight neck I usually don't need a crimp. As to bullets, I am really liking these Mid South 55 grain Varmint Extremes with the cannelures. Both my AR's love them and they seem to be very accurate in my all my 223 rifles.

[Guest GunTroll]

Those Varmint extremes have the lead nose?

[glockster157]

Those Varmint extremes have the lead nose?

Yep, I don't plan on following the Geneva Convention.

[Guest GunTroll]

I don't blame you. Me either.

[Guest BungieCord]

1. Unless it's a select fire weapon, you don't need to crimp.

2. I might adjust a few thousandths based on the particular bullet but because SHTF might mean strange magazines, I'm always working around 2.250" to the meplat.

3. For HD/SD, I like a bonded 62-gr bullet. Your 1:9 should stabilize them fine. For other options, I'd recommend you check out AR15.com's ammo oracle. Free advice from Dr. Gary Roberts (AKA DocGKR) is worth a helluva lot more than you pay for it.

4. Unless you basement/garage leaks, I wouldn't bother. IMHO, for SHTF, the .50-cal ammo can is the optimal storage solution. Each pocket in a GI bandoleer will hold three 10-rd stripper clips (if you remove the cardboard insert). Seven pockets per equals 210 rounds. A .50-cal can is waterproof and will accommodate four loaded bandoleers (840 rounds total), two stripper guides and a packet of silica gel desiccant. Seal it and leave it that way until needed and that ammo still should be in perfect condition a century from now.