entitlement

[bajabuc]

Entitlement? I PAID cash for my Social Security insurance! Our benefits aren’t some kind of charity or handout! Congressional benefits—premium federal health care, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days—now THAT’S welfare! And they have the nerve to call my retirement an entitlement!

[Guest GunTroll]

Shared sacrifice guy. You got to give up a little for the greater good.

[Guest db99wj]

F'm.

[1gewehr]

Sorry, but it is. There is no such thing as Social Security 'insurance'. You paid a payroll tax, and your employer did as well. There has not been a 'trust fund' or any other account set aside for you. All you had was a set of IOUs from the Federal government, and they have the power to change the terms as they see fit.

Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme. It depended upon the contributions from those paying to always be larger than the distribution to those getting checks. In other words, Robbing Peter to pay Paul. The country has more debt to Paul than they are capable of robbing from Peter. So they write IOUs to themselves for the difference. It's like getting another credit card to pay the payments on the ones you have already maxed out!

You younger guys need to LISTEN UP! Government promises are worthless. If you do not provide for yourself, and plan for your own retirement, you will end up as a WalMart greeter eating Ramen twice a day and a 'wish sandwich' for lunch.

[Guest GunTroll]

HAHAHA!

I'm listening.

[Guest uofmeet]

Originally, they weren't spending it. It was set aside......but many moons ago, some politicians said hey, we can "borrow" some money from it to buy votes......so, now it is a crotch of .... and i agree, never depend on the government unless you want to me let down.

[bajabuc]

When I first started paying...way before you were born...it was labled insurance on my checks. If you want me to "give a little" you really want me down at the mission...just another homeless bum. "There must be something wrong with that guy...otherwise he'd have 3 million dollars."

[Jonnin]

It was a loss from day 1. My great grandmother's husband signed up about on the first day(they would have been about 40 years old), and when he passed on grandma drew on it until she died in about 1990. She probably got some 3-5 times what they paid into it. Not everyone lived that long but I would say most of the folks that joined it in the early days pulled out more than they put in and its been behind since. It does a lot of good, supposedly keeping some 1/3 of the elderly out of poverty (barely), but its a scheme of taking from the young forever to feed it and the moment jobs/taxes/etc are in the toilet, like today's economy, there isnt enough to feed the machine esp with old folks getting older and older with all that good health care our country has. Best way to fix SS is to ensure that everyone of working age has a good job that can be taxed to feed it... !!

[DRM]

Entitlement? I PAID cash for my Social Security insurance! Our benefits aren’t some kind of charity or handout! Congressional benefits—premium federal health care, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days—now THAT’S welfare! And they have the nerve to call my retirement an entitlement!

So... it would be fair to say you feel you are entitled to it?

I'm sorry you believes SSI was a "Retirement" plan. I have known since I was 12 years old that SSI would never be there for me. Now I look at my own 3 kids and realize their future is being destroyed by the exact entitlement mentality you have.

I'm not blaming you, I'm simply saying this:

These government programs are unsustainable, period.

So you and I can be responsible citizens, and suck it up and start fixing it NOW, or we can pile it on the backs of our children and their children so we don't have to feel the pain.

Are you ready to be a responsible citizen? I know I am. And if that means I have to suffer some to save my kids and the rest of their generation from suffering - I'm ready to do my part. Bring on the pain NOW, not later when it is magnified hundreds of times.

[bajabuc]

If it was a payroll tax I should have been able to declare it on my incomtaxes and deducted it from my taxes. Nope sorry chump...can't do that...it's not a tax so you can't deduct it. Tax is Tax...you can deduct "other taxes" but not SS "tax"

[Guest GunTroll]

When I first started paying...way before you were born...it was labled insurance on my checks. If you want me to "give a little" you really want me down at the mission...just another homeless bum. "There must be something wrong with that guy...otherwise he'd have 3 million dollars."

I would never wish you to bumming. In fact I wish you would never look to the gov for anything. I was more or less quoting Obama by the way. I meant no offense and my comment was sarcastic in nature. That is if this ^ comment was directed at me at all, guy.

Edited July 29, 2011 by GunTroll

[Caster]

The fact is that SS pays out more than was paid in. A system that uses more than it generates won't work. Let it burn.

[Jonnin]

Its a scam, though. Insurance, tax, whatever word is used for it. I call it a tax because I cannot opt out of it, to put the money into investments of my choosing or to spend. Its a scam because the money was not invested and grown to keep pace with inflation and so on -- it was designed to be fed by the working age people to support the elderly at a time when the elderly were a smaller ratio of folks to the workers, it was ill thought out and unsustainable for changes in population dynamics or economy or inflation etc. Think of it this way, you could borrow $100 from me today to invest into say gold, sell your gold in 10 years for $125, pay me my 100 back, and keep the 25. That is great for you but I lost money due to inflation, my $100 isnt worth what it was back then. That is what the government is doing, year in and year out: it takes a dime from a 20 year old to pay to a 65 year old, but when it comes time to pay back that dime to the 20 year old, they owe that person $1 because of inflation/cost of living/etc. So they borrow $1 from the 20 year olds to pay the new retiree back.... on and on it goes. Even if you got out what you paid in dollar for dollar --- its not sustainable due to inflation etc, and if they pay you interest, they have to have invested the money to earn it, which is not being done!

[G27]

"I'm gonna get mine"

It's what will destroy this country. Has already, in fact.

[bajabuc]

They used to have a "surplus"(I just got out of a lecture by the SS admins) The surplus was invested in Treasury Bonds. 2009 was the first time the outgo exceeded the income and they cashed some bonds. Whenever there's a surplus they invest it. unless he's a typical Gov liar.

[Guest GunTroll]

Its a scam, though. Insurance, tax, whatever word is used for it. I call it a tax because I cannot opt out of it, to put the money into investments of my choosing or to spend. Its a scam because the money was not invested and grown to keep pace with inflation and so on -- it was designed to be fed by the working age people to support the elderly at a time when the elderly were a smaller ratio of folks to the workers, it was ill thought out and unsustainable for changes in population dynamics or economy or inflation etc. Think of it this way, you could borrow $100 from me today to invest into say gold, sell your gold in 10 years for $125, pay me my 100 back, and keep the 25. That is great for you but I lost money due to inflation, my $100 isnt worth what it was back then. That is what the government is doing, year in and year out: it takes a dime from a 20 year old to pay to a 65 year old, but when it comes time to pay back that dime to the 20 year old, they owe that person $1 because of inflation/cost of living/etc. So they borrow $1 from the 20 year olds to pay the new retiree back.... on and on it goes. Even if you got out what you paid in dollar for dollar --- its not sustainable due to inflation etc, and if they pay you interest, they have to have invested the money to earn it, which is not being done!

Oh man. Spot on! What else can be added to a truthful, simple to understand, factual statement. I say close the thread after that comment!

just kidding .

[Jonnin]

The surplus is correct but its only on paper. From the web, which may or may not be correct: "These [Trust Fund] balances are available to finance future benefit payments and other Trust Fund expenditures – but only in a bookkeeping sense.... They do not consist of real economic assets that can be drawn down in the future to fund benefits. Instead, they are claims on the Treasury that, when redeemed, will have to be financed by raising taxes, borrowing from the public, or reducing benefits or other expenditures. The existence of large Trust Fund balances, therefore, does not, by itself, have any impact on the Government’s ability to pay benefits. (from FY 2000 Budget, Analytical Perspectives, p. 337)" --- the trust fund they mention is the surplus which is stored in treasury bonds which is basically an IOU.

[Caster]

Dig deeper to the root of it all. ANY system that TAKES from one to give to another is pure communist filth. Because the system is mandatory whether you care to participate or not, It's theft. Absolute, unadulterated theft, on an order of magnitude.

[mav]

I doubt SS will even exist when I retire. It is one of the reasons I max out the contribution to my 401-K every year.

[Just2Honor]

+1 to Castor "The American Republic will endure until the dayCongress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."- Alexis de Tocqueville

Looks like the politicians fiqured it out many yrears ago

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Old 82 year old Dad was telling me about in the depression before they passed SS. In AL where he lived, they passed a law saying that kids are required to take care of their elderly parents (just like parents have always been required to take care of their minor children).

So cancel SS/Medicare and replace it with a law requiring kids to take care of the parents and pay their medical bills. Same as the parents did for their kids.

Even with SS, it is kinda like the following, but without SS it would be more so. Me and wife are in the "taking care of elderly parents" stage right now, as a matter of fact.

Because of longer life expectancy the numbers are a little bigger, but it has about always been this way since the caveman days--

(Possibly a few years of "freedom" in-between these stages, if lucky)

1. 20 years mooching off parents

2. 20 years raising kids

3. 20 years taking care of parents

4. the remainder of yer life mooching off kids.

It is beautifully symmetrical. Half the time giving and the other half of the time taking.

You youngsters start building on extra rooms for your parents to move in!

[Guest nicemac]

Entitlement? I PAID cash for my Social Security insurance! Our benefits aren’t some kind of charity or handout! Congressional benefits—premium federal health care, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days—now THAT’S welfare! And they have the nerve to call my retirement an entitlement!

It is a ponzi scheme that was doomed to fail from the start. And you (and most of the rest of the country) believed it. I have been paying into the scheme since 1976 and have known I will never see a penny of it for most of that time. I hate it for the people that trusted the government to take care of them and didn't save for themselves but recent events did not come as a surprise to anyone who has even paid minimal attention to what has been happening for the past 20 or 30 years. I watched a documentary that had footage from the 80's where economists were telling the politicians THEN that SS was not sustainable because the baby boomers would be coming of age on the 21st century. The politicians robbed the fund and stuck worthless IOUs in the "lock box."

You will get benefits that are greatly reduced from what you thought you would get. I (and people that retire in a few years or more) will get nothing.

Edited July 29, 2011 by nicemac

[Guest nicemac]

Dig deeper to the root of it all. ANY system that TAKES from one to give to another is pure communist filth. Because the system is mandatory whether you care to participate or not, It's theft. Absolute, unadulterated theft, on an order of magnitude.

Yes sir.

[Guest WyattEarp]

it's been an entitlement from Day 1 for this fact right here. If you rely on the government to do something for you (i.e. deduct money from your wages to set aside for your retirement) you have big problems. You can never trust the government to know what is good for you. You can never trust the government to follow through on what they say. yes it's your money that is involuntarily taken and put into this fund, its your money that you most likely will never see again, and its their false promises that misled you. But it's your fault for not being proactive and making sure you had your own retirement fund as backup plan.

Every American is PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE for himself/herself. The sooner people start learning this and understanding this, the better off they are going to be in the long run. It's a concept that most Americans still don't seem to get.

By the time I go to retire, there won't be any Social Security for me. I don't expect there to be either. I am not expecting that check, I am not counting on that money whatsoever.

Honestly, I think the government should refund everyone whatever money they've put in their, BUT I think the money should have to go into either a 401K or an IRA of some sorts, or a trust fund for college and not just directly into the pockets of the citizens for them to waste and spend.

It's high time the government did away with Social Security, instead they should only require that each citizen open an IRA or a 401K or some type of retirement account, and that employers take out the money that they would normally take in Social Security and put into the employee's IRA or 401K. This way Uncle Sam can't get to the money and steal it, but at the same time the employee can't touch the money either until they are retired (or get a judges order to be allowed to touch it in case of permanently disable).

Sorry, but it is. There is no such thing as Social Security 'insurance'. You paid a payroll tax, and your employer did as well. There has not been a 'trust fund' or any other account set aside for you. All you had was a set of IOUs from the Federal government, and they have the power to change the terms as they see fit.

Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme. It depended upon the contributions from those paying to always be larger than the distribution to those getting checks. In other words, Robbing Peter to pay Paul. The country has more debt to Paul than they are capable of robbing from Peter. So they write IOUs to themselves for the difference. It's like getting another credit card to pay the payments on the ones you have already maxed out!

You younger guys need to LISTEN UP! Government promises are worthless. If you do not provide for yourself, and plan for your own retirement, you will end up as a WalMart greeter eating Ramen twice a day and a 'wish sandwich' for lunch.

Amen!!!!!! Couldn't have said it any better myself and right on the money.

When I first started paying...way before you were born...it was labled insurance on my checks. If you want me to "give a little" you really want me down at the mission...just another homeless bum. "There must be something wrong with that guy...otherwise he'd have 3 million dollars."

even FDR said Social Security was never intended as a retirement account, it was merely meant to be a supplement to your retirement, but honestly the whole program has been defunct and flawed.

Tennessee has an individual account for all the road repairs and upgrades in the state. When they made that account, they also made a law where no one can get into that fund and pilfer the money on other projects or use it for other causes. Road money is road money. It doesn't get spent anywhere else. It's why Tennessee has some of the best highways in the nation. The politicians can't get into the account and pilfer it as they please, there's checks and balances to get that money, and it's overseen that the money is used what it was intended for, which is why Tennessee roads are all paid for and why we have no debt on them.

Tennessee Department of Transportation

If Social Security was setup like that, to where the fund could never be raided, it might have a chance, but since the Democrats decided it was a big slush fund they could use to fund other projects and simply stick an IOU in it when they took from it, the program became defunct.

[Jonnin]

Old 82 year old Dad was telling me about in the depression before they passed SS. In AL where he lived, they passed a law saying that kids are required to take care of their elderly parents (just like parents have always been required to take care of their minor children).So cancel SS/Medicare and replace it with a law requiring kids to take care of the parents and pay their medical bills. Same as the parents did for their kids.Even with SS, it is kinda like the following, but without SS it would be more so. Me and wife are in the "taking care of elderly parents" stage right now, as a matter of fact.Because of longer life expectancy the numbers are a little bigger, but it has about always been this way since the caveman days--(Possibly a few years of "freedom" in-between these stages, if lucky)1. 20 years mooching off parents2. 20 years raising kids3. 20 years taking care of parents4. the remainder of yer life mooching off kids.It is beautifully symmetrical. Half the time giving and the other half of the time taking.You youngsters start building on extra rooms for your parents to move in!

Its beautiful until you have no kids, or the modern divorce family where you have 8 step-parents, or any of a dozen other scenarios beyond "the 1950s family of 4" utopia. Its horrible once you get some real world circumstances going.