They are coming for your 401(k)/IRA, again.

[Guest nicemac]

I keep reading this kind of stuff. Every time it gets less far-fetched.

Is Your IRA Going To Be Raided?

[bigwakes]

There was a day when I laughed at such notions......that day has passed.

[Worriedman]

I think this is the central node, quoted from the article:

All modern governments believe they are above the law. They justify violation of the law on the grounds it is necessary for the "good of the nation.

We spend so much time here discussion "Private Property" issues, is your money, that you have earned and saved not your private property?

[Guest nicemac]

I think this is the central node, quoted from the article:

We spend so much time here discussion "Private Property" issues, is your money, that you have earned and saved not your private property?

Absolutely. But in Obama's (the liberals) world, income is property of the government and needs to be "distributed."

I have worked hard for 30 years and have saved a signifiant amount of money (for me). The thought that Uncle Sam will swoop in and "redistribute" it to the moochers makes me really angry. I do not buy expensive stuff, I save. I drive old cars that I pay cash for. I see my neighbor (who is at the brink of foreclosure) driving a new SUV, again. Fourth or fifth new car she has had in the five years she has lived next door. She is off on vacation every time you turn around. Of course she has the latest smartphone. She has no savings, bouncing checks all over town for insufficient funds. I drive an old car and don't take many vacations so I can save for the rainy day that is coming. My savings will get taken and given to "the less fortunate" like her who squandered her money and can't pay for her health care down the road.

ARRRRRRGH.

[bigwakes]

It's Obama's new American Dream. Don't work hard all your life, don't sacrifice anything and the backs of those who did will be broken for you.

[Jonnin]

That won't do any good.. they ruined the market so all the accounts are worth a fraction of their value, then raid the pennies that are left? I would be glad to loan what is left in mine to the gov't at 10% compound interest, due in 20 years...

[G27]

Oh man, anyone who thinks they AREN'T going to eventually take your IRA is crazy...

[Guest nicemac]

Oh man, anyone who thinks they AREN'T going to eventually take your IRA is crazy...

So how can you protect yourself? I mean, you can't just withdraw all of your money…

[Jonnin]

So how can you protect yourself? I mean, you can't just withdraw all of your money…

By putting it into a stock market account that is not labeled as a retirement account? I stopped feeding my IRA years ago and put all my cash into a generic account. Its taxed, unlike the IRA and 401, but thats ok, I won't have to deal with that when I pull it back out. I can take my money out any time I want with no penalty apart from any losses on that day in the market.

[Guest nicemac]

By putting it into a stock market account that is not labeled as a retirement account? I stopped feeding my IRA years ago and put all my cash into a generic account. Its taxed, unlike the IRA and 401, but thats ok, I won't have to deal with that when I pull it back out. I can take my money out any time I want with no penalty apart from any losses on that day in the market.

Rephrase: How do you protect yourself if you have a large 401(k) already?

[Jonnin]

Rephrase: How do you protect yourself if you have a large 401(k) already?

I wish I knew a good way, I do not. You can always take the hit on a 401 and withdraw it early if you think you will lose the whole thing, thats all I know to say.

[Guest nicemac]

…Its taxed, unlike the IRA and 401, but thats ok, I won't have to deal with that when I pull it back out.

I wouldn't be surprised if they change that as well and tax it again when you pull it out.

[G27]

Rephrase: How do you protect yourself if you have a large 401(k) already?

You either cash in now and take the hit or you wait and see how the gov't handles your money.

Guess which one I chose a few years ago...

[mav]

I could be wrong, but I think it will be a couple of years, if ever, before the government even attempts such a move. I think a more likely approach would be to eliminate the tax deferment on retirement accounts.

It didn't happen when Pelosi, Reid, and Obama ran everything, and they are all pretty far left.

[Guest nicemac]

I could be wrong, but I think it will be a couple of years, if ever, before the government even attempts such a move. I think a more likely approach would be to eliminate the tax deferment on retirement accounts.

That could be the first step.

[G27]

I could be wrong, but I think it will be a couple of years, if ever, before the government even attempts such a move. I think a more likely approach would be to eliminate the tax deferment on retirement accounts.

It didn't happen when Pelosi, Reid, and Obama ran everything, and they are all pretty far left.

As our debt crisis continues to worsen, we'll see more and more moves that would have been unthinkable just a decade ago...

[mav]

As our debt crisis continues to worsen, we'll see more and more moves that would have been unthinkable just a decade ago...

I agree. However, I don't think the american people would stand for a confiscation of their private retirement accounts. If the government increases an individual's tax by 10, 20, or even 30% that is one thing. While it would suck, people would begrudgingly live with it until they could vote out all those who voted to raises taxes. The IRAs, etc... are a different matter. The average balance in a 401K is around $75k. To a lot of people, that is a fairly decent amount of money. I think it would be sheer stupidity on the government's part if they did not diasarm society before they tried such a stunt. There are a lot in society that would go bat s**t crazy if that happened.

Anyway, I don't see it happening anytime in the near future. I could see the government eliminating the mortgage deduction, dependent deduction, charitable deduction, and the tax deferment on 401Ks long before they would even contemplate the confiscation of retirement accounts.

[BigK]

Maybe I've allowed myself to lulled into complacency by the election of so many Tea Party candidates in the House, but I don't see it happening. My thinking is just like what mav said...if it didn't happen when they had majorities in both houses of Congress and the Presidency, I don't think it will.

In that embarrassing speech last night, BO whined that the rich (read: job providers) still have some money he wants to spend and he can't borrow more money to get out of debt b/c of the mean ole Republicans and that he'll be forced to redirect the 10% of the budget that goes to interest pmts (what defaulting really means) to pay for Soc. Sec. and the Military. I hope the House refuses to budge until 2012.

[G27]

I agree. However, I don't think the american people would stand for a confiscation of their private retirement accounts. If the government increases an individual's tax by 10, 20, or even 30% that is one thing. While it would suck, people would begrudgingly live with it until they could vote out all those who voted to raises taxes. The IRAs, etc... are a different matter. The average balance in a 401K is around $75k. To a lot of people, that is a fairly decent amount of money. I think it would be sheer stupidity on the government's part if they did not diasarm society before they tried such a stunt. There are a lot in society that would go bat s**t crazy if that happened.

Nah, all they'd have to do is tell everyone they were giving them 1.1:1 in the new Govt Retirement Fund and people would line up. And those that didn't wouldn't do anything but complain.

[mav]

Nah, all they'd have to do is tell everyone they were giving them 1.1:1 in the new Govt Retirement Fund and people would line up. And those that didn't wouldn't do anything but complain.

That is a rather pessimistic view. While you may indeed be correct, I will keep my cynicism in check until next year's elections.

The vast majority of people owning a 401K, Roth, IRA, etc... are taxpayers. The other 50% of the working population who do not pay any income taxes are more than likely not going to have a retirement account unless their company does one for them, so we can count them out of this equation.

The taxpayers, as evidenced from the last election and the current debt ceiling debate, have awakened to the fact that Washington is out of control and has been for quite some time. They realize that Washington cannot be trusted to be a good steward with their money. If the government is struggling to keep Social Security solvent, what fool would think the government would do a better job with SS II? I know math isn't a lot of people's strongpoint, but I think it would take a lot more than a 1.1:1 promise to entice people to accept this new government retirement fund.

I will admit that I could be wrong by placing my faith in the common sense of taxpaying voting public. I will either be justified by the outcome next year's election, or be shown that it is I who is the fool.

[G27]

That is a rather pessimistic view. While you may indeed be correct, I will keep my cynicism in check until next year's elections.

Touché.

I hope you're right and I'm just jaded - while it wouldn't directly affect me any more, I'd hate to see so many folks become ever more dependent on the government - by force...

[Guest nicemac]

Color me jaded…