should 18 year olds have ccw

[analog_kidd]

I tend to agree with Rabbi here. I think different things happen at different ages. I have a 19 year old that I wouldn't feel comfortable with carrying a handgun. Not that he isn't safe or doesn't know the rules of gun safety, we go shooting all the time together. But he is impulsive and would have the possibility of pulling his gun in the heat of an argument, or something along those lines.

He lives on his own so that he can live by his rules. Fair enough, he's 19 and supports himself and pretty responsible overall. However, he drinks, and sometimes to excess. I guess he comes by that naturally, I did at his age (when it was legal at 18 by the way). I think a few more years may help with the maturity level and help avoid this behavior, and possibly some problems. Not to say that 21 year olds won't drink to excess, many do, but maybe the extra age helps with some young people. But starting when you're 18 and imature and impulsive and thinking that you'll live forever, will just start a bad pattern, early.

Now, he is a smart kid, has lots of social and political beliefs that he has actually put a lot of thought into. I believe that he can truely make an educated decision on who he will vote for, and not just follow the "Rock the Vote" crowd. I believe most 18 year old kids are capable of this too.

So, just going by my highly unscientific, one person study, I think that its not unreasonable to have different ages for different activities. If the one age for everything is a valid point, why don't we say if you can drive a car at 16, you should be able to have a beer? Or you shouldn't be able to dive a car till you're 21? That sounds kind of silly really.

[Marswolf]

No doubt that most people get smarter as they get older and more experienced.

To me, the defining point here is that we have decided as a society to make 18 the magic age when one suddenly is fully legally responsible for what they do. We make certain privileges available to younger people, like driving. But if you are a thief, the penalties are different at age 17 than they are at age 18.

Much of this topic has become like the imagined evils of allowing ordinary people to carry a handgun. "If we allow 18 year olds to carry a handgun, the streets will run red with blood!"

I doubt that. Three years probably wouldn't make much difference.

Analog, I think it's interesting that your 19 year old drinks underage. I did that too at age 19 and even at 17. Funny how bad laws are ignored and worked around.

[The Rabbi]

It sure makes a difference in auto accidents. I don't know why it wouldn't in handgun carry as well.

[Guest atomemphis]

ah, but riddle me this:

how many youths at 21 come and take the permit class almost immediately anyways? nearly zero right?

I took my class at (almost) 24. I was the youngest in a class of 30 or so people.

I don't like that you can't get your permit at 18. Seems like if I'm deemed old enough to vote and go to war, and be held accountable, I should get all the freedom I can have. Drinking and shooting, etc. Everybody I knew growing up drank well before they were 21 anyhow (reason primarily: you weren't supposed to). When most college kids turn 21, their drinking/partying days are coming to an end actually.

Go figure.

[Marswolf]

I wonder how many "gangstas" are under 21 and pack heat? Seems like we should even the odds.

From what I read, in colleges there are more people concealing a handgun, permit or no. People ignore bad laws.

[The Rabbi]

I wonder how many "gangstas" are under 21 and pack heat? Seems like we should even the odds.

From what I read, in colleges there are more people concealing a handgun, permit or no. People ignore bad laws.

I wonder how many faygolas are over 21 and pack fudge.

I dont know what that has to do with anything. I never knew anyone who had a concealed handgun in his dorm. Maybe at Pigsknuckle State U they do but not at any university I went to. Whether they do or not is not an issue. Illegal means illegal, remember?

Again, look at traffic fatalities and extrapolate to handguns. It doesn't make for a good argument.

[Marswolf]

Well, if three years makes that much difference in maturity, I'd argue that we need to change the age to vote and be considered an adult in court to 21.

But I'll bet you find a lot more concealed handguns in dorms and backpacks at major universities than you did a couple of years ago.

Edited March 11, 2008 by Marswolf

[Fallguy]

It sure makes a difference in auto accidents. I don't know why it wouldn't in handgun carry as well.

Perhaps that is because they have had the chance to get 3 more years experience?

Maybe we need a Learner's Permit and/or a Graduated Permit for Handgun carry?

You know...with a Learner's Permit you can only carry if you are accompanied by someone with a HCP. No open carry. Only one handgun

Stage 1 Graduate permit. You can only carry a caliber of .38 or less. No open carry. Only one handgun

Stage 2 Graduate permit. You can carry any caliber. You can open carry. Still only carry one handgun.

Then full permit as we have now.

[Marswolf]

Maybe we should let kids drive at 13. Then by 18 they could have the same amount of driving experience they now have at 21.

[Guest TargetShooter84]

ah, but riddle me this:

how many youths at 21 come and take the permit class almost immediately anyways? nearly zero right?

I took my class at (almost) 24. I was the youngest in a class of 30 or so people.

I don't like that you can't get your permit at 18. Seems like if I'm deemed old enough to vote and go to war, and be held accountable, I should get all the freedom I can have. Drinking and shooting, etc. Everybody I knew growing up drank well before they were 21 anyhow (reason primarily: you weren't supposed to). When most college kids turn 21, their drinking/partying days are coming to an end actually.

Go figure.

I got my permit right after the VA Tech Shooting that following summer b/c I felt really uncomfortable about what has happened lately with the school shooting and the crime that has jumped lately, even though I dont carry at school, but I do carry at times when I'm out in unfamiliar areas. When I signed up for the class...I was 22 at that time so I was the youngest person in that class out of 25 or 30 people...felt lil bit awkward at first but it wasnt too bad because I just minded my own business while they minded their business.

[The Rabbi]

Well, if three years makes that much difference in maturity, I'd argue that we need to change the age to vote and be considered an adult in court to 21.

I dont have a problem with that. That was the law here until some goobers who had gotten draft notices started chanting "old enough to fight, old enough to vote" in the late '60s/early 70's.

[Marswolf]

I dont have a problem with that. That was the law here until some goobers who had gotten draft notices started chanting "old enough to fight, old enough to vote" in the late '60s/early 70's.

I was one of those goobers. I'm one of the goobers now that thinks you should be able to pack a gun and buy beer at 18.

[The Rabbi]

I was one of those goobers. I'm one of the goobers now that thinks you should be able to pack a gun and buy beer at 18.

Yeah. And 18 yr old voting was so succesful we want to extend the idea.

[molonlabetn]

Perhaps there should be no set age for adulthood... But, suppose one cannot get an "adult" DL, HCP, buy a firearm, buy alchohol, etc... whatever... unless they have filed Federal income taxes independantly the previous year, Graduated college, or completed a 4-year stint in the military?

That would still have its problems... but it would force personal responsibility and accomplishment, at some level, to drive the approval by society of one's maturity.

[Fallguy]

My brother missed out of playing one more year of Little League baseball because he was born on July 31st. Had he been born August 1st, he could have played one more year. I graduated in 1985 at 17 years old had I been born 3 days later I would have been in the class of '86 and 18 for 2/3 of my senior year.

I guess my point is everyone matures at different rates and different levels, but at some point there has to be a legal line and you are either on one side of it or the other. You are either "legally" an adult at one age or another for all things. Since there is no way to individually determine what activities are appropriate for what people at what age....and just which people would make such decisions anyway?

[Daniel]

my birthday is july 31st ^___^

[Guest gunslinger707]

I kind of agree with Marswolf If you can vote serve in the military be held accountable in court as an adult you should be able to buy a beer .get HCP etc.at eighteen Strange you can buy a pack of cig's at 18 BUT heaven forbid if you buy a beer go figure !!!..........BTW i'm one of those goober's too ! lol