Is it too late to buy American?

[LastRebel70]

We have, excuse me, "had" a Goodyear tire plant not far from where I live but they closed last week, forgot how many people lost their jobs, but I know some of these people that were making $28 an hour and kept going on strike because they wanted more, I guess now some are going to fill what it's like to make what the average worker makes.

[deerslayer]

My father worked there in the 80s. The labor climate must have changed--he said when it was contract season, everyone griped about what they were going to lose or give up with the next contract. Meanwhile, they couldn't produce tires fast enough. He was no union fanatic, but he thought it was silly that the employees would bend over and give up pay or benefits when the company was begging them to work overtime.

[strickj]

The WalMart haters absolutely kill me! It's all Chinese crap!

The stuff you guys buy at Target, Costco, and the local hardware is all the brands, made in the same place, and assembled by the same person as the stuff I get from WalMart. The only difference is I pay less. doi

[Erik88]

The WalMart haters absolutely kill me! It's all Chinese crap!

The stuff you guys buy at Target, Costco, and the local hardware is all the brands, made in the same place, and assembled by the same person as the stuff I get from WalMart. The only difference is I pay less. doi

I'm not one of the Wal-Mart haters (though I do try to avoid the place) but I think that one of the reasons so many people hate it isn't because of the "Chinese crap" but rather the buying power that Wal-Mart has. They pretty much rape their suppliers because they have so much power. Their sales every year are higher than some countries entire GDP At least that is the common argument I hear against them.

[Oh Shoot]

...Their sales every year are higher than some countries entire GDP ...

Another way to look at it is as one of the great American success stories. And as a logistics professional, surely you agree that Walmart's brilliance in that area was key.

It's become very American to reward failure and punish success nowadays. Was reading something recently where some of the top dogs in the country, among them founder of Home Depot, were saying no way could they crank those endeavors up in the present climate.

- OS

[Guest drv2fst]

Personally, I've always thought "buy american" was broken logic. As a believer in Capitalism and Freedom, I believe in "Buy Best". Buy the best products and let the companies compete for your business. As an American I sure hope that American companies produce the best products at the best prices, but the market will let us know.

Agendas like "buy american" take attention away from the real problems like "be competitive" and "be good at what you do". That's all I can say about it without a soapbox.

[DaveTN]

Personally, I've always thought "buy american" was broken logic. As a believer in Capitalism and Freedom, I believe in "Buy Best". Buy the best products and let the companies compete for your business. As an American I sure hope that American companies produce the best products at the best prices, but the market will let us know.

Agendas like "buy american" take attention away from the real problems like "be competitive" and "be good at what you do". That's all I can say about it without a soapbox.

You mean have a lower price. Foreign countries don’t have OSHA, EPA, retirements, Unemployment Benefits, Disability benefits, 401K, Medical insurance (although that’s one we are losing quickly), overtime pay, etc. Which of those do you want to do awaywith?

It's useless to try and point out the fallacies and inaccuracies in Dave's close-minded "Buy American" pontifications, but it sure is entertaining to watch.

Only a moron would be laughing at what’s going on. But being clueless about what’s going is is the norm for you isn't it? You can go back to sleep now.

[DaveTN]

Dave, I have 2 Fords, don't own a Toyota have never owned a Toyota. How am I part of the problem? I work in a factory that is in the US so guess where there taxes and everything else gets spent? If the press that are making the parts for you Harley are in a foreign country, then that's where the die makers, the mold makers, and the machinist etc are.

I didn’t mean you are part of the problem. You have to stick up for whoever puts food on your table. The problem is those that will sell out their country in one thread and call themselves a Patriot in another; there’s a word for that.

Most of the parts on my Harley were made here by Americans. I’m sure some parts were made in foreign countries. Harley doesn’t have much competition, but they still have to remain somewhat competitive to keep costs down.

[G27]

When I bought a new Weber (gas) grill last year, I researched them a bit only to find that the 'Genesis' and 'Summit' lines were the only ones made in the USA - the Spirit (cheapest and most common) line is made in PRC. I really wasn't planning on buying a $750 grill, but I wanted to buy US made and new the Genesis line was a true upgrade. In retrospect, I'm glad I bought the Genesis, but many / most folks can't afford to make that decision over and over again.

And I also believe in the free market, as stated above. I buy Honda vehicles because, ime, they are better built. And every time I've bought one new they've cost more than their US made counterparts, but cost of ownership is much lower in the long term - so it's not just about what's cheapest out the door. If / when I'm in the market again and US manufacturers (well, Ford - will not buy GM or Chrysler ever again) are building something competitive, I'll absolutely give them a look.

[Guest nicemac]

RE: "Foreign countries don’t have OSHA, EPA, retirements, Unemployment Benefits, Disability benefits, 401K, Medical insurance (although that’s one we are losing quickly), overtime pay, etc. Which of those do you want to do away with?"

Why do people think they are entitled to unemployment benefits, 401ks and medical insurance paid by their employer? Piling on the benefits (in large blocks, by unions largely) until the cost of those benefits break the company has played a large part in getting us in the fiscal mess we are in because we can no longer compete with other countries.

[Guest bkelm18]

"Buy American" rhetoric IMO stifles innovation and creativity. If American products were good quality and affordable, more people would buy them and more people would sell them. Oftentimes though, affordability wins out over quality. I shop at Walmart. Sue me. I'm a student and as such live on a shoe-string budget. I shop very carefully when it comes to purchases of $100 or more and if American products were contenders, I'd buy them. Electronics for one thing, Americans are woefully behind the ball on. Guns? A good portion of the quality makers are foreign. Cars? Pretty silly to say American cars are better than foreign and vice versa. I've seen both break down and cost a fortune to maintain. Like I said, we need to innovate and create products that the average consumer WANTS to buy. As it stands right now, that's not happening. I can spend $30 on a piece of crap something-or-other made in the US, or I can spend $2 on the same piece of crap something-or-other made in China. Tough decision. Until there's a better, more economical alternative, I'll shop at Walmart. Why is it MY job to buy American products when it should be the MANUFACTURER'S job to make a product I WANT to buy?

Edited July 25, 2011 by bkelm18

[Guest drv2fst]

You mean have a lower price.

Nope. I mean satisfy demand. Demand can be price, functionality, quality, or anything else the market values.

Foreign countries don’t have OSHA, EPA, retirements, Unemployment Benefits, Disability benefits, 401K, Medical insurance (although that’s one we are losing quickly), overtime pay, etc. Which of those do you want to do awaywith?

We can't afford them. They are a bunch of really great ideas that don't work. I believe in personal responsibility. I think the government needs to quit doing things it can't afford to do.

[Erik88]

Another way to look at it is as one of the great American success stories. And as a logistics professional, surely you agree that Walmart's brilliance in that area was key.

It's become very American to reward failure and punish success nowadays. Was reading something recently where some of the top dogs in the country, among them founder of Home Depot, were saying no way could they crank those endeavors up in the present climate.

- OS

You are absolutely right. Their continued success is built around their supply chain and it's a truly impressive one at that.

[willis68]

I have to give Ford credit here, my truck was built at the Rouge Plant and has a sticker on the lower part of the windshield, saying where it was built when I first saw pictures of my Raptor I wondered what the sticker was as I could not see it to make it out. I have to say the quality of this truck is as good if not better than any Toyota, Nissan or any Foreign competitor Ford has restored my faith and showed me that a quality vehicle can be built 100 percent in the USA.

[ls3_kid]

My most prized possession was made in Bowling Green, Kentucky.

However most things have been outsourced to other country now a days. I can't recall but my engine might even be from Canada (or Dearborn, MI).

[monkeylizard]

RE: "Foreign countries don’t have OSHA, EPA, retirements, Unemployment Benefits, Disability benefits, 401K, Medical insurance (although that’s one we are losing quickly), overtime pay, etc. Which of those do you want to do away with?"

Why do people think they are entitled to unemployment benefits, 401ks and medical insurance paid by their employer? Piling on the benefits (in large blocks, by unions largely) until the cost of those benefits break the company has played a large part in getting us in the fiscal mess we are in because we can no longer compete with other countries.

Unemployment benefits are required by law.The premiums come out of our paychecks and are paid to the state fund for unemployment. The idea is that in normal times, there's enough paid in by the workers to cover those who have become recently, and temporarily, unemployed. We're hardly in normal times, but I've paid into that fund for a lot of years. If I ever need it, I'm taking it. It's exactly what it says it is, unemployment insurance. I'm very much entitled to that. Other benefits are negotiable.

You seem to have snipped out Dave's other points of OSHA and the EPA. And Dave even left out child-labor laws. It's very difficult to run a domestic production where safety and pollution is important when your competitor can have employees killed or maimed regularly while their line for new hires still wraps around the block and some dude is pouring the old toxic sludge into the creek behind the factory.

I believe that the company that can bring the better product to market at the lower cost deserves to be in business. Competition creates better products through innovation. But when the game is played by two or more sides operating under different rules, it's near impossible for the one playing with the more restrictive rules to win.

[Oh Shoot]

Unemployment benefits are required by law.The premiums come out of our paychecks and are paid to the state fund for unemployment. ...

Nothing comes out of your paycheck for TN unemployment insurance. SUTA and FUTA payments are from your employer.

- OS

Edited July 25, 2011 by OhShoot

[mav]

As I was reading the following article, it made me think a lot about this thread.

UAW wants bigger cut of Detroit's newfound profits - Yahoo! News

[DaveTN]

RE: "Foreign countries don’t have OSHA, EPA, retirements, Unemployment Benefits, Disability benefits, 401K, Medical insurance (although that’s one we are losing quickly), overtime pay, etc. Which of those do you want to do away with?"

Why do people think they are entitled to unemployment benefits, 401ks and medical insurance paid by their employer? Piling on the benefits (in large blocks, by unions largely) until the cost of those benefits break the company has played a large part in getting us in the fiscal mess we are in because we can no longer compete with other countries.

Okay…. So you want to do away with all employee perks. Fine, but what about OSHA, EPA, and Lawsuits? What about American companies that have to pay big bucks to dump their waste and protect their employees from injury.

You think the Chinese companies get sued when an employee gets hurt? Or fined for dumping waste?

If the unions were gone today we would need them back tomorrow. Some of you seem to be saying we should have the working conditions of third world countries as long as it keeps us competitive.

[Guest nicemac]

Okay…. So you want to do away with all employee perks. Fine, but what about OSHA, EPA, and Lawsuits? What about American companies that have to pay big bucks to dump their waste and protect their employees from injury.

So merely asking why people feel entitled to employer-provided insurance, etc… means I want to do away with them? I don't feel that way at all. Most of those things are no longer the employee benefit they started out as, they have become entitlements. Why do people think their employer should be responsible for their health care insurance? People will spend more of someone else's money–that is precisely why health care costs are out of control.

If the unions were gone today we would need them back tomorrow. Some of you seem to be saying we should have the working conditions of third world countries as long as it keeps us competitive.

No, we wouldn't. Nearly 90% of Americans report to their jobs each day and they aren't in a union (and they aren't working in third-world conditions). Most are much happier with their job than their union counterparts. Oh, and the companies not dealing with unions tend to be more profitable than the ones all but destroyed by the union.

I have found it all but impossible to reason with someone with a pro-union mentality, anytime the subject comes up. They will never convince me that screwing lug nuts on a GMC is worth $75 per hour plus benefits for life and I will never convince them that it isn't.

[Caster]

I have found it all but impossible to reason with someone with a pro-union mentality, anytime the subject comes up. They will never convince me that screwing lug nuts on a GMC is worth $75 per hour plus benefits for life and I will never convince them that it isn't.

Ain't that the truth! We don't need unions to protect workers anymore. Any scandal going on today can be on the news and all over the web tonight. SO, why do we need a Union, what are they protecting? Deadbeat workers who make enough to pay 2 or 3 good employees. Unions have slid down hill to rest in the communist cesspool along side social security and all other forms of organized social programs.

[monkeylizard]

Nothing comes out of your paycheck for TN unemployment insurance. SUTA and FUTA payments are from your employer.

- OS

I stand corrected. Thanks.

But either way, the point is the same. It's required by law. The employer can't decide to not pay it to lower costs like they can with 401(k) matching, health insurance, long-term disability insurance, paid vacations, etc.

[NRA]

Does anyone seriously believe that an auto worker makes 75.00 plus benefits? what color is the sky in your world?

[Caster]

Well, how much does a $30 an hour worker cost an employer? Maybe not $75/hour PLUS benefits, but I'll bet you by the time an employer pays $30 an hour, pays in on the employee workmans comp, umemployment and all the other BS, then pays for insurances for the worker and family, 401K and all the other nonsense I bet you that worker costs the employer every dime of $75 hour or more.

[NRA]

You mean have a lower price. Foreign countries don’t have OSHA, EPA, retirements, Unemployment Benefits, Disability benefits, 401K, Medical insurance (although that’s one we are losing quickly), overtime pay, etc. Which of those do you want to do awaywith?

Only a moron would be laughing at what’s going on. But being clueless about what’s going is is the norm for you isn't it? You can go back to sleep now.

Very good points. Lets not forget this country lost the steel mills then textiles. It appears that some of the comments could also care less what other industries will close up all so they could save $2.00 at Wally World. How can any American laborer compete with a Mexican or Chinaman that is happy to make 3.00 per hour? Could you feed your family on that type of wage? Not to mention the Japs that sell their sole to the company and put their families second after their jobs. This is just not our culture we value our families first. You can also bet Sam Wal-Mart is rolling over in his grave with what his greedy kids did too his company. Please remember the company he envisioned was one that would keep Americans working by selling products made in America!