Ranger didn't violate kwik's 2nd Amendment rights seizing his AK.

[aquaman67]

It's on wsmv's (channel 4 Nashville) website. Would post a link but not sure what's allowed.

[mikegideon]

Links are OK

[MacGyver]

Park ranger wins Nashville federal gun case - WSMV Channel 4 - Nashville, TN News, Weather and Sports

Glad to see there's still some sanity in the world.

Edited July 24, 2011 by MacGyver

[RobertNashville]

I'd sure like to know more about this...although I find Leonard's antics stupid and perhaps even dangerous, it seems to me that law enforcement went overboard here.

[Guest RevScottie]

Although Kwik does some stupid things I still can't agree with confiscating a legal weapon. Lots of people own AR/AK pistols and carry them in their vehicles. Does this men that LEO can charge you as if you are carrying a loaded long gun? Even though it wasn't a smart thing to do were Kwik's actions actually illegal? If we truly had our 2nd amendment rights there never would have been a question to start with but that's another topic

[hipower]

Glad to see this was just a judgement in one of his past escapades. I was afraid he'd made another trip outside in his quest for whatever it is he's doing.

[Smith]

I'd sure like to know more about this...although I find Leonard's antics stupid and perhaps even dangerous, it seems to me that law enforcement went overboard here.

This has been hashed beyond reason on this forum, but I would hope Rangers would at least detain a person carrying what appears to be an SBR'ed AK47 in a local uppity park. He held him long enough to find out what the legal response should be and then let him go. IIRC the original story the gun was not confiscated.

[titan14]

.

Edited July 24, 2011 by titan14

[Oh Shoot]

Although Kwik does some stupid things I still can't agree with confiscating a legal weapon. ...

... IIRC the original story the gun was not confiscated.

I never even heard Kwik claim they took the gun. You can be sure if they had, Kwik would have spouted that on all the forums from which he wasn't yet banned.

- OS

[Jonnin]

They need to clarify this badly. The gun is a pistol unless modified to be a SBR. I don't care what it looks like or how big it is its a pistol. Yet in a different case TN all but said an uneducated jury gets to decide if the gun is a pistol or not.... thankfully the case was dismissed before they got to that point but that is how vague the laws are. LE is right more often than he is wrong, but his methods suck.

[JayC]

This has been hashed beyond reason on this forum, but I would hope Rangers would at least detain a person carrying what appears to be an SBR'ed AK47 in a local uppity park. He held him long enough to find out what the legal response should be and then let him go. IIRC the original story the gun was not confiscated.

Detain yes, but 2 to 3 hours in custody is a little bit excessive... Once they determined he had a valid HCP and no criminal record, they should have let him go... If a couple of hours later they had found something to charge him with, it's not like they didn't know where to go and find him.

[Guest db99wj]

Screw him. Legal or illegal is not my point, he is more of a danger to our rights than anyone because if his antics and apparent motivations. I dont think either party did anything illegal.

Is there a time limit on how long you can be detained? I'm guessing not, don't think they are going to say " Oh, it has been XX:XX amount of time, we don't know if this guy is safe or not, but will let him go anyway."

I've said it before, if were to have seen him in that park, dressed in his finest mall ninja gear and that AK pistol strapped across his back, I would be moving me and my family out of the area, getting away from him.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

F him.

Edited July 24, 2011 by db99wj

[Mike.357]

no one did anything illegal at that park that day in relation to Lenny and his pistol. Glad it played out that way in court.

[DaveTN]

I'd sure like to know more about this...although I find Leonard's antics stupid and perhaps even dangerous, it seems to me that law enforcement went overboard here.

As a Cop you are called to the scene because a guy has an AK47 strapped across his chest. This is in a park where families are taking their children. What are you going to do, stand around and say there is nothing you can do? As the court has now pointed out, and the Judge when they pulled his permit; you would be wrong.

Embody did this to test his interpretation on the law. His test has now shown that his interpretation of the law was wrong and he no longer has a permit because of it.

If you are talking about “Rights†under the Tennessee State or United States Constitution you had better be talking about someone that is standing on their own property.

There isn’t a single person on this forum that can stand up and say this guy isn’t a nut job, or that this is something any intelligent person would have pulled. Our carry license system would be a failure if we didn’t have a way to take the carry privilege away from nut jobs when their own actions bring them to the attention of the Department of Safety.

I commend these Judges for their decisions. And as an HCP holder I can assure the public that the majority of legally armed citizens in no way shape or form support the incredibly stupid and thoughtless acts of this one individual.

[mikegideon]

As a Cop you are called to the scene because a guy has an AK47 strapped across his chest. This is in a park where families are taking their children. What are you going to do, stand around and say there is nothing you can do? As the court has now pointed out, and the Judge when they pulled his permit; you would be wrong.

Embody did this to test his interpretation on the law. His test has now shown that his interpretation of the law was wrong and he no longer has a permit because of it.

If you are talking about “Rights” under the Tennessee State or United States Constitution you had better be talking about someone that is standing on their own property.

There isn’t a single person on this forum that can stand up and say this guy isn’t a nut job, or that this is something any intelligent person would have pulled. Our carry license system would be a failure if we didn’t have a way to take the carry privilege away from nut jobs when their own actions bring them to the attention of the Department of Safety.

I commend these Judges for their decisions. And as an HCP holder I can assure the public that the majority of legally armed citizens in no way shape or form support the incredibly stupid and thoughtless acts of this one individual.

I agree 100%. I'm also not surprised by ANY of the actions taken against Lenny. He's a dangerous idiot, and they shut him down, just as it should be.

[RobertNashville]

As a Cop you are called to the scene because a guy has an AK47 strapped across his chest. This is in a park where families are taking their children. What are you going to do, stand around and say there is nothing you can do? As the court has now pointed out, and the Judge when they pulled his permit; you would be wrong.

Embody did this to test his interpretation on the law. His test has now shown that his interpretation of the law was wrong and he no longer has a permit because of it.

If you are talking about “Rights” under the Tennessee State or United States Constitution you had better be talking about someone that is standing on their own property.

There isn’t a single person on this forum that can stand up and say this guy isn’t a nut job, or that this is something any intelligent person would have pulled. Our carry license system would be a failure if we didn’t have a way to take the carry privilege away from nut jobs when their own actions bring them to the attention of the Department of Safety.

I commend these Judges for their decisions. And as an HCP holder I can assure the public that the majority of legally armed citizens in no way shape or form support the incredibly stupid and thoughtless acts of this one individual.

I never said he wasn't a nut job or that his actions weren't stupid so please don't insinuate that I was but Leonard was never the point of my comment anyway; I don't really give a s**t about Mr. Leonard; my point...my concern is that a firearm that is, apparently, legal to carry was confiscated from a HCP holder and this judge apparently said that was okay. I find that troubling.

Edited July 24, 2011 by RobertNashville

[DaveTN]

I never said he wasn't a nut job or that his actions weren't stupid so please don't insinuate that I was but Leonard was never the point of my comment anyway; I don't really give a s**t about Mr. Leonard; my point...my concern is that a firearm that is, apparently, legal to carry was confiscated from a HCP holder and this judge apparently said that was okay. I find that troubling.

Would you find it less troubling if the state of Tennessee legislated a more specific description of what a handgun is? One that rule out the AK/AR pistols or PLR-16? What if they just outlawed open carry because of his actions?

The state is in total control of how, what, where, and when you can carry. Would you feel better if the state passed laws so that you would be clear? Are you afraid that you may do something like strapping a cut down rifle across your chest and carrying it openly in a public park without knowing you are violating a law?

The state department of safety and the courts acted on this reckless act without passing any new legislation. That’s a win to me.

[Guest db99wj]

I never said he wasn't a nut job or that his actions weren't stupid so please don't insinuate that I was but Leonard was never the point of my comment anyway; I don't really give a s**t about Mr. Leonard; my point...my concern is that a firearm that is, apparently, legal to carry was confiscated from a HCP holder and this judge apparently said that was okay. I find that troubling.

I don't think they "seized" the gun past him being detained at the scene, I don't recall that from all the reports when it happened. I was thinking they let him go with possession of it. Also if they did, he would be plastering that everywhere for all to see. I could be wrong though.

Edited July 25, 2011 by db99wj

[mikegideon]

I never said he wasn't a nut job or that his actions weren't stupid so please don't insinuate that I was but Leonard was never the point of my comment anyway; I don't really give a s**t about Mr. Leonard; my point...my concern is that a firearm that is, apparently, legal to carry was confiscated from a HCP holder and this judge apparently said that was okay. I find that troubling.

Laws are written with broad strokes. I would rather see them dealing directly with someone that's exploiting that fact, than to let our scumbag politicians "refine" the law to rack up a few votes. They saw Kwik's game for what it was, and dealt with it without hurting any of us.

[Guest RevScottie]

Would you find it less troubling if the state of Tennessee legislated a more specific description of what a handgun is? One that rule out the AK/AR pistols or PLR-16?

Since different rules apply depending on the weapon's classification then yes I would like to know. If it is a pistol it is legal to have it loaded with a round chambered with it stored behind the seat in my truck, if not it is illegal. If it's purchase is treated as a pistol it should legally be considered one as well.

[RobertNashville]

I don't they "seized" the gun past him being detained at the scene, I don't recall that from all the reports when it happened. I was thinking they let him go with possession of it. Also if they did, he would be plastering that everywhere for all to see. I could be wrong though.

I may be operating under a false assumption but since the ranger was found to have acted properly in seizing his weapon I guess I assumed that the weapon was seized???

The story said "A federal judge has ruled in favor of a park ranger in Nashville who seized a firearm being carried by a man at a state park in 2009".

Edited July 24, 2011 by RobertNashville

[Guest RevScottie]

One thing that disturbs me in this thread are the responses that are based on how the weapon "looks". Is a Draco pistol more dangerous than a Pmr-30 because it looks more evil? When the news media refers to a semi auto rifle as an assault weapon almost everyone on here complains about categorizing a weapon based on it's looks, even coining the phrase "evil black rifle" because of it. Maybe it's just Kwik's antics or some peoples belief that you should never open carry that has brought these responses but the fact of the case is the officer and judge both misinterpreted the law because what Kwik did was 100% allowed under the laws of the state of TN. Mark my words this type of crap ruling will now be used to prosecute some other law abiding citizen who isn't out to make a point and we should all be outraged by it.

[RobertNashville]

Would you find it less troubling if the state of Tennessee legislated a more specific description of what a handgun is? One that rule out the AK/AR pistols or PLR-16? What if they just outlawed open carry because of his actions?

The state is in total control of how, what, where, and when you can carry. Would you feel better if the state passed laws so that you would be clear? Are you afraid that you may do something like strapping a cut down rifle across your chest and carrying it openly in a public park without knowing you are violating a law?

The state department of safety and the courts acted on this reckless act without passing any new legislation. That’s a win to me.

As a general rule, I like to have such things well defined - ambiguity in the law has a way of biting you in the ass when it's least convenient - when things aren't defined they tend to be up to the opinion of district attorneys, police officers, etc., etc.; I'd rather have it in black and white.

[Oh Shoot]

...

The story said "A federal judge has ruled in favor of a park ranger in Nashville who seized a firearm being carried by a man at a state park in 2009".

News reports are generally about half accurate at best.

Of course they "seized" it while Kwik was detained. Having spent way too much time reading Kwik's froth on a variety of forums, at no time did he ever claim they kept his Draco once they decided not to arrest him.

- OS

[DaveTN]

Since different rules apply depending on the weapon's classification then yes I would like to know. If it is a pistol it is legal to have it loaded with a round chambered with it stored behind the seat in my truck, if not it is illegal. If it's purchase is treated as a pistol it should legally be considered one as well.

One thing that disturbs me in this thread are the responses that are based on how the weapon "looks". Is a Draco pistol more dangerous than a Pmr-30 because it looks more evil? When the news media refers to a semi auto rifle as an assault weapon almost everyone on here complains about categorizing a weapon based on it's looks, even coining the phrase "evil black rifle" because of it. Maybe it's just Kwik's antics or some peoples belief that you should never open carry that has brought these responses but the fact of the case is the officer and judge both misinterpreted the law because what Kwik did was 100% allowed under the laws of the state of TN. Mark my words this type of crap ruling will now be used to prosecute some other law abiding citizen who isn't out to make a point and we should all be outraged by it.

Well first off they ruled his rights were violated because he doesn’t have a right to carry a gun. He had a privilege.

Secondly they didn’t say the gun was illegal. I don’t think the even addressed that. His actions were reckless in the eyes of the DOS and the Court. For that he lost his permit.

Would we need to list everything for you that you could do with a gun that would cause you to have a hearing on your permit?

Let’s start a list…

1. Strapping an AK47 to your chest and walking through a public park where families are bringing their children for a day out.
   
2. This hasn’t been tested yet, but I would bet if you throw your AR pistol or PLR-16 on your dash while you are driving around; you will gain the attention of law enforcement and lose your permit.
   
3. Carrying your PLR-16 in the seat of your car while driving around with your convicted felon buddies that are in possession of cocaine will get you charged in Sumner County with a weapons offense even though you have committed no violation.