Ohio police threaten to execute permit holder video

[BigK]

After a member of a group does something like this officer did, some members privately approve/disapprove, some try to dinstance themselves, some defend/explain the situation, and some publicly denounced the acts. The group usually responds with some official message and it often sounds like the horse crap we heard from the Canton PD. When handled properly, both the group and its members respond quickly like the Baptists and other religions did to distance themselves from Fred Phelps and his bunch. I heard lots of people defend Michael Vick publicly, explaining his actions as part of his culture. I don't always agree with the explanation (like with Vick), but at least I respect them for stepping up and trying to shed light on things.

I didn't check the profile of everyone who has replied to see who is/was an LEO. I know Dolomite is and I thank him for giving us his take. Still, I wish we could hear more of the perspectives of some current LEOs. I hear a lot about there being a code of silence among cops, but have no idea if it's true. It'd be good to know how some of them feel about it.

[FUJIMO]

I just hope never to be put in this situation......period !

[Fallguy]

That was completely out of control. I can understand him being upset when he found the gun and I could not imagine the adrenaline rush that ensued when he did. The cop and dispatcher broke protocol, but I'm certain I would have tried harder to say I had a permit. We could not hear the driver when he was in the vehicle, so maybe he did his best. Do you think he was really picking up a prostitute?

What difference does it make? Even if he was, not like it's the crime of the century....

[Guest nicemac]

RE:"Do you think he was really picking up a prostitute?"

Probably.

He was pulled over on the side of the road, in an area known for prostitution at 1:30 AM, with a known prostitute standing outside the open back door of the car. Cops had a right to be suspicious.

Nearly everything the cops did after they got out of the car was handled wrong though. And nothing he did justified what they did.

Edited July 22, 2011 by nicemac

[aquaman67]

This story has hit Fox News.

[Oh Shoot]

This story has hit Fox News.

Yeah, watching right now. Commentators are excoriating the jerk, of course.

Now that dirty linen is public nationally, the PD probably will probably act quickly to cover azz.

- OS

[Punisher84]

Yeah, watching right now. Commentators are excoriating the jerk, of course.

Now that dirty linen is public nationally, the PD probably will probably act quickly to cover azz.

- OS

I haven't had to google a word in a very long time, but excoriating got me. Kudos to you sir.

[E4 No More]

In knew that video wasn't going to go well the first time that he was referring to the guy in the back seat as something other than "sir". I believe calling someone "Hoss" is never recommended as an expression of professional conduct.

[Guest King703]

I saw this on FOX News this morning. It's good to see all the conceal carry support. In TN when stopped by an LEO we are not legally required to tell the LEO we are legally concealing...correct? Does anyone know protocol in OH?

King

[JAB]

LEO's are trained to exert a sense of confidence that is akin to dominance.

I remember a time, however, when at least the majority of LEOs could do that while still remaining friendly and respectful. Some still can and do. The problem, to my mind, is the increasing militarization of our civilian police forces. Instead of being a 'culture' where public service and being part of the greater community is the dominant attitude, many times the current 'culture' seems geared more toward acting like an occupying military force or, maybe, prison guards who consider us all 'inmates'. This might be a proper attitude for a SWAT team (of which there are far too many which are used far too often, IMO) but not for a traffic cop.

[Guest nicemac]

Obviously there are bad cops, but I have been stopped maybe 10 times over 30-some years of driving and have always been treated respectfully.

I have only been stopped once since I got my HCP a few years ago. I handed it to the (motorcycle) cop (at the speed trap) and he told me he wouldn't be needing that and promptly handed it back to me, followed by a ticket for a couple of mph over. I don't think he made eye contact during the stop.

[oldogy]

FAIL ...Just wrong in so many ways. The cop was probably upset with himself for his lack of awareness, how easily he could have been taken down by the driver. The video should be used as a training film on how not to make a traffic stop.

oldogy

[oldogy]

I saw this on FOX News this morning. It's good to see all the conceal carry support. In TN when stopped by an LEO we are not legally required to tell the LEO we are legally concealing...correct? Does anyone know protocol in OH?

King

That is what set off the cop. OH is a must inform state. I travel there, have business there.

oldogy

[DaveTN]

In TN when stopped by an LEO we are not legally required to tell the LEO we are legally concealing...correct?

That is correct. And there is no law that stops a LEO from treating you as a deadly threat if he sees a gun you have not told him about. Common sense works both ways.

[aquaman67]

That is correct. And there is no law that stops a LEO from treating you as a deadly threat if he sees a gun you have not told him about. Common sense works both ways.

Another point. Here in TN, your permit number and driver's license number are the same. So he's going to know you have a permit whether you tell him or not. I haven't been pulled over since I got my permit, but I plan to hand it and my driver's license over at the same time. I'm not sure, but I don't think it's that way in Ohio.

[raydog1]

Brady Campaign should hire this cop. He's a perfect poster child for the "law enforcement" that should be the only ones carrying guns. Heck they could put this video right next to the vid of Plaxico Burress on their front page.

[E4 No More]

Brady Campaign should hire this cop. He's a perfect poster child for the "law enforcement" that should be the only ones carrying guns. Heck they could put this video right next to the vid of Plaxico Burress on their front page.

[Guest WyattEarp]

to be honest, I don't see where the cop actually "threatened" the guy. He said things like "when I saw the bulge, I should have"...that's not threatening IMO. but at the same time, it's also not necessary to speak to someone like that and degrade and defile them.

he walked a fine line between threat and speaking in hindsight about "what he should have done".

[diablo982]

I didn't check the profile of everyone who has replied to see who is/was an LEO. I know Dolomite is and I thank him for giving us his take. Still, I wish we could hear more of the perspectives of some current LEOs. I hear a lot about there being a code of silence among cops, but have no idea if it's true. It'd be good to know how some of them feel about it.

Yes, LEO's will be reluctant to "rat" on a co-worker. Officers, (particularly street officers) have a special bond with other officers they work with. You are counting on these people to back you up when the SHTF, and they expect the same of you. The dynamic is very similar to your immediate family. Would you easily turn in your brother, sister or child if they did something wrong? Rob a bank? Probably, but reluctantly. How about cheat on their income taxes? Where do you draw the line?

On a side note, I found some of the cop bashing posts a little ridiculous. As was pointed out by others, you can't judge the actions of a few to prejudge an entire group. I recently had two contacts with law enforcement (check points) and before even revealing I was a LEO, I found the officer/trooper to be polite and professional. In the 10 years I was on the street, I rarely saw anyone treated abusively by law enforcement who didn't start with an attitude themselves. When it does happen, it winds up on National news like this incident.

I can give you recent examples of HCP holders in Clarksville and Ashland City whose behavior gives strong argument to the anti-handgun carry movement. I am smart enough to know those were the actions of a few and not representative of the entire HCP community.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I didn't check the profile of everyone who has replied to see who is/was an LEO. I know Dolomite is and I thank him for giving us his take. Still, I wish we could hear more of the perspectives of some current LEOs. I hear a lot about there being a code of silence among cops, but have no idea if it's true. It'd be good to know how some of them feel about it.

Just to avoid confusion I am no longer in LE. I walked away in 2005. I thought it was clear in the previous post but I need to reiterate I am no longer in LE.

Dolomite

[Glock30]

to be honest, I don't see where the cop actually "threatened" the guy. He said things like "when I saw the bulge, I should have"...that's not threatening IMO. but at the same time, it's also not necessary to speak to someone like that and degrade and defile them.

he walked a fine line between threat and speaking in hindsight about "what he should have done".

Did you watch the entire video? The threats seem EXTREMELY clear to me. If someone says he should have taken two steps back, pulled his weapon, put 10 rounds in me, and then let me drop... I'm gonna take that as a pretty clear threat!!

[JayC]

LEO's are trained to exert a sense of confidence that is akin to dominance. There's no room for being wishy washy or timid in their line of work. The must appear to be in charge of every confrontation. I suspect this is often mistaken for a "power trip".

However, the officer in this video has some serious issues. The language he uses aside is unnecessary, but the threats to a fully cooperating citizen are just plain inexcusable. My guess is that he'll be attending some on the clock anger management classes and be given a lengthy paid vacation soon.

And that is the problem right there... This officer CLEARLY has broken the law, if a citizen made those types of unprovoked threats and lied on official government documents they would be going to prison to be bubba's girlfriend. Anything less than formal felony charges is a white wash by the DA's office and anything less than termination of the officers POST certification is a failure on the part of the state licensing bureaucracy.

Also, while I'm on my soapbox, failure to notify laws are unconstitutional to begin with, a violation of the 5th amendment against self incrimination.

[Worriedman]

A different, but similar situation, and a much different reaction from the Officer. I am going to find this man and send him a "Thank You"!

[wcsc12]

Just, wow. Speechless, really. Far worse than I had imagined upon reading the thread title.

If that cop still has a job, the people of Canton are screwed.

Well apparently, as of today, they updated with the following:

UPDATE 7/22/2011: Canton Police announced Thursday that the officer was relieved of all duties in June following an internal investigation complaint filed in this matter.

I'm not really 100% what that means but I know, according to a news article, it stated he was put on administrative leave as of June 20th.

Honestly though, he's pretty much like majority of the cops I've met. I've only met three who have been really decent with me. Two are female and one is a male and the only male cop I like. The two female cops rocked socks.

I'd rather have cops with a better demeanor than ones that act like this. I mean, the guy didn't even replay the events in his head. He completely lost it despite the guy actually saying that he was carrying and was holding his license out for the cop the entire time they were talking to him. Hell, if I were the cop, I would have just let the guy go. Thankfully, you're not required to notify cops here in TN.

Edited July 23, 2011 by wcsc12

[DaveTN]

Another point. Here in TN, your permit number and driver's license number are the same. So he's going to know you have a permit whether you tell him or not. I haven't been pulled over since I got my permit, but I plan to hand it and my driver's license over at the same time. I'm not sure, but I don't think it's that way in Ohio.

I guess you could call in a license or punch it into a computer before you stopped a car. But I usually never ran a check (on a stop for traffic) until after I had the car stopped. By then the initial contact has been made.

This is one of those times in your life that you will be held responsible for the decisions you make.

If the cop sees a gun that you haven’t told him about and you find yourself face down on hot asphalt; you can whine and cry all you want afterwards; but it won’t change anything.

I’m not condoning what this cop did. He went too far. He has a serious problem because he has caused a problem for his Chief. Will he be fired? Doubtful, but that depends on his record; people make mistakes.... even cops.