new kid on the block

[Guest stevieb615]

Hello everyone. New to the forum and semi-new to the world of shooting.

Name - Steven

Location - Smyrna

Interests - going back to school

Guns I own - Taurus PT1911 Duo Tone .45 ACP

I mainly joined the forum to gain knowledge from locals. I have some specific questions about finding the right gun for me, if anyone wants to help out. I have a full sized 1911 and I enjoy shooting it, but I don't think it's necessarily the right gun for me. I just can't seem to put rounds on target the way I can with a 9mm. And I am shopping for a carry gun at the moment as well, but just can't find exactly what I want. In a carry gun, the traits i want are: auto-loading, 9mm or 380, steel or aluminum frame - no polymer frames, compact or subcompact frame, no DAO triggers, accessory rail is a must. I will be carrying it in a crossbreed supertuck or similar IWB holster. Anybody able to help steer me in the right direction? Thanks.

Edited July 20, 2011 by stevieb615

[Caster]

Don't feel bad. Not for one second. I've been through a pile of 45's trying to find one I can shoot decent. Never had any real results. For many moons I have held to the gospel of the .45ACP, but it seems it was all in vain. I sold all but one and the only reason I keep it, my wife bought it before we were married. It's a cool girlfriend that buys you a pistol. So it's a treasure. I sold all my other ones, and shoot 9mm exclusively as far as auto loaders go. I like 38/.357 and 45 Long Colt in my revolvers.

I figure one thing about it all, and my logic is undeniable; A 9mm that strikes the target every time beats the heck out of a 45 that does not.

As far as suggestions, I think you ought to check out a CZ or a Sig. Both absolutely FINE handguns and meet the no plastic prerequisite you set.

...oh by the way, Welcome to the crowd!

[Raoul]

Welcome!.

+1 on the Sigs. I'd also suggest Kahr. Neither are cheap.

[DWARREN123]

Howdy Steven and Welcome to TGO

[Fourtyfive]

Welcome !

[Guest stevieb615]

So I took a trip down to the outpost armory and pestered their awesome staff for a bit. Came up with some things that meet most of my criteria for what I want: Sig P228 and P229, Beretta 92 compact, Beretta 84FS Cheetah, Taurus PT-917 and PT-909. Thoughts?

[adam42]

Welcome from the eastern part of the state.

[Caster]

The Sig or the Beretta 92.

You cannot lose on either.

[Jonnin]

Hello everyone. New to the forum and semi-new to the world of shooting.

Name - Steven

Location - Smyrna

Interests - going back to school

Guns I own - Taurus PT1911 Duo Tone .45 ACP

I mainly joined the forum to gain knowledge from locals. I have some specific questions about finding the right gun for me, if anyone wants to help out. I have a full sized 1911 and I enjoy shooting it, but I don't think it's necessarily the right gun for me. I just can't seem to put rounds on target the way I can with a 9mm. And I am shopping for a carry gun at the moment as well, but just can't find exactly what I want. In a carry gun, the traits i want are: auto-loading, 9mm or 380, steel or aluminum frame - no polymer frames, compact or subcompact frame, no DAO triggers, accessory rail is a must. I will be carrying it in a crossbreed supertuck or similar IWB holster. Anybody able to help steer me in the right direction? Thanks.

Welcome!

Bersa makes a great 380 and 9mm in a medium/small frame, metal and with a rail. These are DA guns, not DAO.

Is this at all the size or shape or stlye you might like?

[Guest stevieb615]

Welcome!

Bersa makes a great 380 and 9mm in a medium/small frame, metal and with a rail. These are DA guns, not DAO.

Is this at all the size or shape or stlye you might like?

for conceal carry, yes. hate polymer frames. hate DAO. would like an accessory rail to mount a surefire X400, but if i can't get a rail, i at least want something i can mount crimson trace's on. so really the only place for compromise is the frame size and rail. i just really don't know how id feel lugging around a full size 92A1 with a light/laser mounted. that's some weight.

[MarkInNashville]

for conceal carry, yes. hate polymer frames. hate DAO. would like an accessory rail to mount a surefire X400, but if i can't get a rail, i at least want something i can mount crimson trace's on. so really the only place for compromise is the frame size and rail. i just really don't know how id feel lugging around a full size 92A1 with a light/laser mounted. that's some weight.

Welcome! Have you tried out any Ruger's? They seem to get a bad rap but there is nothing wrong with them and I can tell you about 1 specific case where their Customer Service did a very good job.

[Guest stevieb615]

there are no rugers that i know of that have everything I want

[Guest stevieb615]

EAA Witness Steel Compact 9mm w/ rail? Anyone?

[Jonnin]

Well the bersa's have a pretty good rep and meet your requirements.

I would say maybe the beretta px4 subcompact. It seems to be a metal frame but plastic grip, has a rail, pretty darn small but fat and sort of heavy. I carry this in .40 cal in my pocket (barely).

I can think of a dozen guns that dont have a rail --- but I suspect any gunsmith worth anything can put a rail onto almost any gun, maybe not the very smallest ones, but most. It may be slightly wider than the frame, but they can get it on there. If you decide to install a rail, that opens up things like the cz rami, mil surplus like makarov, colt new agent/defender, sig 238, and many more. But the small, single stack carry guns by and large dont have that rail, the plastic's usually do, and thats just how it is unfortunately. A lot of the metal guns are older designs, if not older guns they came from designs that pre date the rail craze.

[Jonnin]

EAA Witness Steel Compact 9mm w/ rail? Anyone?

We have a full sized wittness, and it is officially my wife's favorite gun atm. She can put do a 2-3 inch group at 25 yards or so on a good day with it. It had a somewhat lengthy break in period where it jammed left and right for a while, mostly that was the magazine springs / break in. It has been flawless on factory ammo for a while now and is easily one of the best value guns we have bought, at a little over $400 for a well made, reliable tack driver.

Couldnt say about the smaller model of course, but if its up to the same standards, it would serve you well.

*** the compact, unless I missed it in the list of their stuff, is not really all that small. They are sort of based off cz designes, and CZ's idea of a compact is 7 inches long.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Jonnin

[Guest stevieb615]

We have a full sized wittness, and it is officially my wife's favorite gun atm. She can put do a 2-3 inch group at 25 yards or so on a good day with it. It had a somewhat lengthy break in period where it jammed left and right for a while, mostly that was the magazine springs / break in. It has been flawless on factory ammo for a while now and is easily one of the best value guns we have bought, at a little over $400 for a well made, reliable tack driver.

Couldnt say about the smaller model of course, but if its up to the same standards, it would serve you well.

*** the compact, unless I missed it in the list of their stuff, is not really all that small. They are sort of based off cz designes, and CZ's idea of a compact is 7 inches long.

yeah, it isn't much smaller but it is smaller none the less. i made a spreadsheet last night with some stats comparing all the guns I'm interested in. The biggest contenders now are the Bersa Thunder 9 UC Pro, EAA Witness Steel Compact, Beretta 92FS Compact (hard to find), Taurus PT-909 (discontinued).

[Chief07]

Welcome Aboard Steven.

[Guest stevieb615]

Anyone have a Bersa Thunder 9 UC Pro? It has everything I want, but I'm concerned about: the quality of the trigger and the holster options. Can anyone share on those 2 things?

[Guest stevieb615]

Jonnin, thanks for the turn on to Bersa. Never really gave them a look before now. Now, they have pretty much won the battle. Going to try to go to a shop that has some thunder 380's and thunder 9 UC pro's and see how they fit in my hand. and if the 380's in a pocket holster fit in my big ol' pockets fairly well, i'll probably buy that. My spring/summer/fall clothing style is much better suited for pocket carry than IWB. I'll just hold a flashlight instead of mounting one on a picatinny rail =].

[DaveTN]

I just can't seem to put rounds on target the way I can with a 9mm.

That seems to be the most important factor right there, and it won’t be on your spread sheet. Tell us about the size groups and at what distance. What was the 9mm you are comparing?

[Jonnin]

Glad you like it. Those are the type of gun that I like to carry so I have a mental list of stuff in that size range. Its hard to talk triggers, lol. The bersa's I have picked up and tried have I guess what I would call "typical DA triggers". Which means they more or less are long and heavy on the first pull and fairly sloppy on the second pull. But thats from a guy who compares everything to a quality single action revolver or rifle trigger, where if you touch it, it goes bang. You won't find anything this small with a much better trigger (still not saying much compared to a SA), unless you get a mini 1911 ... and I dont know of one of those with a rail.

[Guest stevieb615]

That seems to be the most important factor right there, and it won’t be on your spread sheet. Tell us about the size groups and at what distance. What was the 9mm you are comparing?

at 7yrds, i can stack every round with a 92FS. at 7rds with my Taurus 1911, this is the best group i've ever shot ---> 2011-07-06_18-10-22_811 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

[Guest stevieb615]

Glad you like it. Those are the type of gun that I like to carry so I have a mental list of stuff in that size range. Its hard to talk triggers, lol. The bersa's I have picked up and tried have I guess what I would call "typical DA triggers". Which means they more or less are long and heavy on the first pull and fairly sloppy on the second pull. But thats from a guy who compares everything to a quality single action revolver or rifle trigger, where if you touch it, it goes bang. You won't find anything this small with a much better trigger (still not saying much compared to a SA), unless you get a mini 1911 ... and I dont know of one of those with a rail.

i'm not really concerned with a rail anymore, i'll just hold a flashlight. I'm sold on price and features I see online, we'll see how I really like it once i get to hold and look at one in person.