SBR build

[Il Duce]

Well Thursday I am going to get fingerprinted and have my forms signed so I can send off for my SBR stamp.

Here is the setup list:

Palmetto State stripped lower

CMMG .300 upper shortened to 10.5"

AAC 51T flash suppressor

DPMS LPK

Mako pistol grip

Magpul MBUS

Magpul MOE handguard

Magpul trigger guard

RRA Operator stock

As far as primary optics I am thinking of running either another Primary Arms Micro OR a Bushnell Trophy red dot because as much as I would love to drop an ACOG on there I would much rather have a suppressor.

[TGO David]

Why aren't you doing this as a Trust instead of going the fingerprint / CLEO route?

[Caster]

Sounds awesome. I think you're going to beat me to the .300BLK game.

Must post pic when done. No excuses.

[Caster]

Why aren't you doing this as a Trust instead of going the fingerprint / CLEO route?

I thought about this question myself as I get ready to build a suppressor on a form 1. I don't see the benefit for me.

[Il Duce]

Why aren't you doing this as a Trust instead of going the fingerprint / CLEO route?

Because I see no benefit.

[Caster]

In my seriously limited understanding, the benefits would be: Bypassing an un-cooperative Chief LEO, and easing the transition of ownership after you pass. Also allows more than one person to legally use/be in possession of said registered device.

I have no problem with the local LEO and there's not a single person I give a rat's hind end about when I take a dirt nap. So no benefit seen for me either. I'm sure I am missing some other benefit(s).

[Il Duce]

Yeah my CLEO is fine with signing as long as you pass a local BC and no one in my family cares about rifles.

[TGO David]

Yeah my CLEO is fine with signing as long as you pass a local BC and no one in my family cares about rifles.

I question the thoroughness of your understanding of the advantages that come with using a Trust for NFA items. Have you read up on it?

I am not going waste your time or mine if you've already done your research, but most people change their opinion once they really see what going through a Trust enables them and their friends/family to do. Especially in terms of estate planning. With you being the sole signer of that form, once something happens to you that SBR must be destroyed or forfeited to the BATFE.

[Il Duce]

So it basically allows the gun to be transferred over to a family member?

Ill admit I ignorant when it comes to setting up a trust.

[Caster]

So it basically allows the gun to be transferred over to a family member?

Ill admit I ignorant when it comes to setting up a trust.

Well, you get to put as many people as you like on your trust. That allows anyone on the trust to be in possession on anything IN that trust. People who have families that share the interest can list several members. For example you, your wife and son could be on the list. They can use your SBR just the same as you can. In the event of your passing, they likewise use, acquire and dispose of items in the trust without you. Handy if, like many, you have a family you care about and share with.

Me? Well my wife could care less and I have no one else. Should my wife out live me, she's been instructed call the ATF to surrender it or ask to file an abandonment (I don't know if a non FFL can do that???), and give them a letter written by me, kept in my safe as to what I would like them to do with it.

With any luck, my prayer will be answered; That I live long enough to take care of my wife to her last day. Then, just as before the powers that be can take it and ................................​yep that's enough out of me for now.

[mikegideon]

To me, the big advantage to a trust is that other members can possess the weapon. When I jump into NFA, I'll do a trust.

[Il Duce]

Yeah I dont loan out my guns and like I said I dont have anyone to pass it to so its a waste of money in my case.

[Capbyrd]

Your wife or child can take possession without a trust. All they have to do is a Form 5 (Application for tax exempt transfer). They would be legal heirs. Same thing if you will it to someone else.

I still can't justify a trust and I've done tons of reading about them.

If trusts didn't cost twice as much as a tax stamp (or more!), then they might be worth it.

[Alleycat72]

I don’t understand the destroying or forfeiting the weapons to the ATF comment. I got about 15 Form 5s in for the local dealer that got his classIII July 1. There is a gray area from the death of the owner until the Form 5 is approved.

[TGO David]

I don’t understand the destroying or forfeiting the weapons to the ATF comment. I got about 15 Form 5s in for the local dealer that got his classIII July 1. There is a gray area from the death of the owner until the Form 5 is approved.

This is true; the new owner can apply for his tax stamp(s) however he is not allowed to possess those items until the stamp(s) arrive. During which time the items must be transferred to a dealer and then transferred BACK to the recipient. They cannot remain in the possession of someone who does not have the requisite papers.

It's far less of a headache to have your ducks in a row ahead of time via a trust.

Barring a person going through the headache and expense of obtaining their own tax stamp, the items would have to be surrendered or destroyed. Which brings up another valid point: If a person is added as an executor or trustee of the trust, they don't have to keep paying the BATFE for those tax stamps every time the item changes hands.

[Jasongar8]

This is from the NFA handbook that you can read on ATF.gov. As with most things NFA there is a grey area, which like David said is what happens to the NFA item between the time the orginal owner passes away and the time the form 5 is approved for the heir.

9.5.3 Distribution of estate firearms.

A decedent’s registered NFA firearms may be conveyed taxexempt

to lawful heirs. These distributions are not treated as voluntary “transfers†under the NFA.

Rather, they are considered to be involuntary “transfers by operation of law.†Under this concept, ATF

will honor State court decisions relative to the ownership and right to possess NFA firearms. So, when

State courts authorize the distribution of estate firearms to decedents’ lawful heirs, ATF will approve the

distribution and registration to the heirs if the transactions are otherwise lawful. A lawful heir is anyone

named in the decedent’s will or, in the absence of a will, anyone entitled to inherit under the laws of the

State in which the decedent last resided.

170

18 U.S.C. 922(a)(4); 27 CFR 478.28

62

9.5.3.1 Distributions to heirs.

Although these distributions are not treated as “transfers†for

purposes of the NFA, Form 5 must be filed by an executor or administrator to register a firearm

to a lawful heir and the form must be approved by ATF prior to distribution to the heir. The

form should be filed as soon as possible. However, ATF will allow a reasonable time to arrange

for the transfer. This generally should be done before probate is closed. When a firearm is being

transferred to an

individual

heir, his or her fingerprints on FBI Forms FD-258 must accompany

the transfer application. The application will be denied if the heir’s receipt or possession of the

firearm would violate Federal, State, or local law. The law enforcement certification on the form

need not be completed. The form should also be accompanied by documentation showing the

executor’s or administrator’s authority to distribute the firearm as well as the heir’s entitlement

to the firearm. Distributions to heirs should not be made until Forms 5 are approved. Executors

and administrators are not required to have estate firearms registered to them prior to distribution

to lawful heirs.

9.5.3.2 Distributions to persons outside the estate

. Distributions of NFA firearms by

executors or administrators to persons outside the estate (not beneficiaries) are “transfers†under

the NFA and require an ATF-approved transfer form. Transfers of serviceable firearms to other

entities or persons require an approved Form 4. Form 4 applications must be accompanied by

the applicable transfer tax, and, if the transferee is an individual, the transferee’s fingerprints on

FBI Forms FD-258. Applications will be denied if transferees’ receipt or possession of the

firearms would violate Federal, State, or local law. Also, Form 4 applications to transfer

firearms to individuals must contain the law enforcement certification of an appropriate law

enforcement official. See Section 9.8 for further information on these certifications. Form 4

applications to transfer firearms to non-FFLs residing outside the State in which the estate is

being administered will be denied. Form 4 transfers should not be made until the transfers are

approved.

[Caster]

I don’t understand the destroying or forfeiting the weapons to the ATF comment. I got about 15 Form 5s in for the local dealer that got his classIII July 1. There is a gray area from the death of the owner until the Form 5 is approved.

I made my comment of surrender because there will be no one to leave them to. There's certainly no family member I would consider. Maybe I should start a trust after all and name a few of you guys, yeah?

[Glock30]

Yeah I dont loan out my guns and like I said I dont have anyone to pass it to so its a waste of money in my case.

Take a long term view. Perhaps you don't have anyone to pass them to right now, but in the future, perhaps you will. Imagine how valuable this kind of foresight would be if tax stamps ever increased from the current $200 level.

[Capbyrd]

Take a long term view. Perhaps you don't have anyone to pass them to right now, but in the future, perhaps you will. Imagine how valuable this kind of foresight would be if tax stamps ever increased from the current $200 level.

It would only cost time since a form 5 is tax exempt.

[mikegideon]

I made my comment of surrender because there will be no one to leave them to. There's certainly no family member I would consider. Maybe I should start a trust after all and name a few of you guys, yeah?

Beats the hell out of giving them to the ATF

[Jon_L]

Legal documents aside, this is going to be a nice SBR.

[Caster]

Legal documents aside, this is going to be a nice SBR.

Yes it is. *jealous*

[Il Duce]

Swapped out the RRA stock for a Magpul MOE as it is a lighter stock and also 70 bucks cheaper lol. At the end of the month I should have the upper ordered and can begin shooting. Once the stamp is in I will drop it off at Hero Gear and have them shorten it and rethread the barrel.

[mikegideon]

How much recoil is this thing going to have?

[Il Duce]

About the same as a .223

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