This is a gun forum…

[Guest nicemac]

I thought that is why we had a "General Off Topic" area?

[bigwakes]

+1

[oldogy]

:cool:And we have other interests to share sometimes:rolleyes:

oldogy

[Guest clownsdd]

I don't understand...

[Guest nicemac]

I don't understand...

Another thread was closed in the General Off Topic area and the stated reason was "This is a gun forum…"

[MacGyver]

It is why we have a "General Off-topic" section. I'm a frequent participant there, and enjoy a lot of the threads.

Here's the deal, though. This is a community. It's a community that's centered on a common interest - firearms. There are a lot of people who have chosen to be a part of this forum because they have this common interest. Their personal ideologies are across the spectrum.

When you get a thread like the one I closed earlier, they have the potential to harm our community quickly. Abortion particularly is one of those issues that galvanizes people, and gets people's hackles up. What may start as a "polite debate" quickly devolves into name calling, and that's hurtful.

My personal feelings on the issue don't matter. I've never closed a thread I've disagreed with on a personal level, even though I have definite, concrete opinions on abortion, adoption, drinking and carrying, Christianity, etc... That's not my job, here. And, it's not the purpose of this forum. When a thread becomes harmful to our community, or a member shows that they are going to continue to act in a way that is contrary to our community, I'll act to preserve the community. A good forum doesn't happen by accident. David has done a great job of putting together one of the top firearms related forums in the country. We're fortunate as moderators that we don't have to do much to foster that.

Post any topic you like. Discuss it in a collegial manner. But, know that when the thread starts to devolve and the name calling starts, I'll close the thread every time.

I am happy to explain any decision I make as a moderator. Hopefully, most of the time, the reasoning is clear without my needing to explain it. But, feel free to ask, whether publicly or privately anytime.

[daddyo]

Another thread was closed in the General Off Topic area and the stated reason was "This is a gun forum…"

I don't get it either. I belong to another "gun" forum that has religion/politics and off-topic subforums. We have very spirited, sometimes heated discussions, but nothing is really forbidden that I know of, except promoting mouseguns as viable self defense weapons. That will get your thread locked in a heartbeat. LOL.

[Guest nicemac]

Post any topic you like. Discuss it in a collegial manner. But, know that when the thread starts to devolve and the name calling starts, I'll close the thread every time.

I may have missed it, but I never saw name calling in the thread. BTW, I agree that that type of behavior should not happen.

[MacGyver]

I may have missed it, but I never saw name calling in the thread. BTW, I agree that that type of behavior should not happen.

Like I said in the other thread, I didn't want to have to ban anyone on a Friday. I closed it before it got there, but it was certainly heading that direction.

[bigwakes]

I wasn't trying to offend anyone, just making a point. I see your point that maybe someone could consider it name calling. Thanks for not banning me and I will be more carefully next time. It seems like most folks around here have a good time with a debate and that was my intentions, just a debate.

[Murgatroy]

Being and admin on a large forum myself I understand exactly why Mac did what he did.

When the intent is to foster community based on a common interest, many times there are other topics that will be discussed. My forum in international, and we have a yearly meet that involves folks from all across the world. A hundred folks from all walks of life with a common interest. A lot of times other common interests will be shared. Sometime they won't. Sometime the feelings will be violently opposite. But the job of the moderators is to ensure that everyone gets along. To moderate the conversations.

When a topic comes along that is touchy, it will get folks all riled up. There are several topics that folks feel very passionate about. That is where feelings get hurt and folks get upset.

To some, they might look on the staff as being too harsh, too strict. But I understand the need for this, especially when we are a community that many groups stand outside of waiting to tear us to shreds. On my forum, which is based on cars, we are much more laid back and political topics are few and far between. As such I can allow my staff to be much more lenient. However name calling and personal attacks are a real quick way to get a vacation.

The point of a discussion forum is to share opinions, ideas, thoughts, experience. However there are several topics that no matter what I say, or what you say, I am not going to change my opinion, and you aren't going to change yours. That is why topics of that matter should be avoided. They are pointless and foolish.

[Caster]

I think maybe use the Ready Room also? A little more tolerance may be afforded in a place the general public [non members] cannot read.

I had a few comments I really wanted to make on the thread that was ultimately closed, but they wouldn't have done anyone any good. They would have just served as bait to start an argument. I like to think most here would agree on my overall stand, but I may be a little more extreme than others and the last thing I would want would be to make a comment that would polarize any members.

[mikegideon]

I don't get it either. I belong to another "gun" forum that has religion/politics and off-topic subforums. We have very spirited, sometimes heated discussions, but nothing is really forbidden that I know of, except promoting mouseguns as viable self defense weapons. That will get your thread locked in a heartbeat. LOL.

Mouse guns have rights too

[mav]

Like I said in the other thread, I didn't want to have to ban anyone on a Friday. I closed it before it got there, but it was certainly heading that direction.

I think you did the right thing MacGyver. For what it is worth, thanks.

While I didn't see any name calling or personal attacks in the thread, the antagonism and crass comments were clearly evident. It was the primary reason I stayed out of it.

[peejman]

... The point of a discussion forum is to share opinions, ideas, thoughts, experience. However there are several topics that no matter what I say, or what you say, I am not going to change my opinion, and you aren't going to change yours. That is why topics of that matter should be avoided. They are pointless and foolish.

A little healthy debate is a good thing. Gets people's juices flowing, get's their brain working. As stated however, some topics are quite polarizing. The above is why I tend to avoid that type of thread in the first place.

Generally when threads are closed, the closing moderator gives an explanation why in the final post. I would expect that if a thread got deleted the OP would get a PM explaining why, whether the reason is obvious or not. I'd expect other folks who pushed it in the wrong direction would also get an explanation via PM. Just seems like the courteous thing to do. Personally, I think this forum is well regulated.

[Guest nicemac]

I think you did the right thing MacGyver. For what it is worth, thanks.

While I didn't see any name calling or personal attacks in the thread, the antagonism and crass comments were clearly evident. It was the primary reason I stayed out of it.

I didn't see any antagonism either. Difference of opinion and viewpoint? Certainly. But I went back and re-read. I don't see antagonism. Crass comments? If crass comments will get a topic closed, nearly every topic should be shut down!

[MacGyver]

A little healthy debate is a good thing.

I could not agree with this statement any more.

Debates, however are based on either an agreed upon set of rules, or a mutual understanding of common courtesy. We have the first of these here, based on the code of conduct that everyone agreed to abide by when they signed up. The second should go without saying, but unfortunately in today's world, it doesn't.

Unfortunately, with a few hot button issues, good rhetoric goes out the window, and chaos ensues quickly. This isn't just on our forum. It happens everywhere. Even, unfortunately at the national level.

There are a lot of threads in some of the subforums that go into page upon page of "healthy debate". We encourage that. That's why this forum is here.

Abortion, same-sex marriage, religion, alcohol, drugs and politics tend to bring out the worst in folks. I get it. We've reached a point where most of these have become litmus test issues that a lot of people get hyper-focused on. When this happens, most rational conversation goes out the window.

It's unfortunate, because in this experiment that we call America, there are some other important things that don't get focus because these topics steal the spotlight. And, unfortunately the conversation even at the national level is unhealthy. I think we forget sometimes that the experiment is still ongoing. We can still screw it up.

As I said earlier, discuss pretty much anything you want. But know, that if I close your thread, your rhetoric is likely lacking.

[Guest clownsdd]

Good job Mac....sure don't want a bunch of guys with guns po'd at each other

[bajabuc]

you closed it just in time...I had a post all typed and everything...

[mav]

I didn't see any antagonism either. Difference of opinion and viewpoint? Certainly. But I went back and re-read. I don't see antagonism. Crass comments? If crass comments will get a topic closed, nearly every topic should be shut down!

Well.. I can only respond by saying that everyone perceives things differently. Anyway, it is over and done with. On to the next topic.

[mikegideon]

you closed it just in time...I had a post all typed and everything...

That woulda done it . It's still going on my Facebook page, and nobody's fighting. Got liberals, conservatives, gays, disk jockeys, and one guy from another planet

[Punisher84]

That woulda done it . It's still going on my Facebook page, and nobody's fighting. Got liberals, conservatives, gays, disk jockeys, and one guy from another planet

Damn disc jockeys!!!

[mikegideon]

Damn disc jockeys!!!

Showing my age... air personalities. Hard disks jockey themselves

[enfield]

you closed it just in time...I had a post all typed and everything...

He KNEW you were going to post and that things were headed south in a hurry. He saved you from being banned on a full-moon Friday.

We need a werewolf smiley.

That being said, after a thread is closed for cause by a Moderator, it's poor form and provocative to open another thread discussing the prior thread and it's closure. It makes the new thread (this one) a prime candidate for closure.

Edited July 15, 2011 by enfield

[bigwakes]

I think its a good way to learn from mistakes of past threads and clear the air. At least noone is left with hard feelings once it's all talked out. You are correct that not all threads after a ban or thread close are a constructive. I can think of at least one.