ATF now declares 223, 6.5 and 6.8 to be pistol ammo, anybody else heard of this??

[Guest redbarron06]

From Elite Ammunitions web page. BATF Classifies .223, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8SPC as Pi

BATF and EA Recent Finding.

EA has had to remove our Trident bullets in .223, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC. The BATF has ruled that all of these cartridges are now pistol cartridges. Since they are now pistol cartridges their construction now falls under the content and construction limitations of the 68 GAC and pistol cartridges.

Currently from other bullet makers like Barnes, solid .223 caliber bullets are still being manufactured and sold . We are working with our BATF IOI person to find out the following,

A) Is Barnes bullets and all other maker that constructs solid bullets in .223 going to have to stop.

If not then why do we have to stop since out basic shape and metallurgical content of our PFP bullets are the same as theirs?

C) Since they are now handgun caliber limited how does Magtech solid copper pistol bullets not fall under the 68 GAC as AP?

D) If Solid copper is not considered a violation of the 68 GAC in handgun bullets then it should also be not a violation of the 68 GAC to make EA’s PFP bullets from solid copper as Magtech does.

Those who have T6 ammunition and PFP bullets will be contacted by the BATF to recover any bullets or ammunition that have not been FIRED yet.

I apologize for this inconvenience and hopefully we can get this matter straightened out one way or another.

Jay Wolf

Pr. Elite Ammunition

Jay posted this on another forum

Yes we where raided. 15 grand in stock taken off our shelves, computers and anything else they wanted.

They had a ruling and it was created the day before. The search warrant was created late that afternoon of the same day and in the morning the 8 ATF folkes where coming through my door.

They let me look at it but not make copies and did not bring copies for me of the new interpretation.

[Raoul]

Now it begins?

[Guest bkelm18]

Pardon my ignorance, but what does this change and why was his stock confiscated?

[Caster]

SS109 becomes illegal to have??? If the 5,56 is declared a pistol round, aren't AP pistol rounds a no no?

[Guest redbarron06]

Pardon my ignorance, but what does this change and why was his stock confiscated?

If I am not mistaken he was marketing some solid copper rounds for hunting. Well in rifle those are legal but in pistol it is considered armor peircing.

[Guest bkelm18]

If I am not mistaken he was marketing some solid copper rounds for hunting. Well in rifle those are legal but in pistol it is considered armor peircing.

Oh ok that makes perfect sense. So now solid copper bullets in either of those calibers are illegal now? Even though for something to be illegal there's these silly things called laws that need to be passed. I guess ATF doesn't need that.

[Defender]

This dont sound good to me...if report is true, then the ATF can just CHANGE what is considered a pistol round and raid a place the next day? And not allowing him a copy of the warrant smacks of too much secrecy and nazism to me...

Edited July 13, 2011 by barewoolf

[Guest bkelm18]

I'm far from a tinfoil hat type person, but I honestly believe the ATF is the spearpoint for socialism and is definitely an agency that we need to be very afraid of.

[Guest redbarron06]

I agree

[Kenstaroni]

SS109 becomes illegal to have??? If the 5,56 is declared a pistol round, aren't AP pistol rounds a no no?

+1, someone please clarify whether it not this means SS109's are legal or not...

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I thought California is now requiring copper bullets to save the whales or something?

[DWARREN123]

Down with BATFE and up with FREEDOM!

[mikegideon]

I thought California is now requiring copper bullets to save the whales or something?

California is for anything that's against gun owners.

[Caster]

Well, worst case scenario and this turn bad, couldn't we still buy the bullets themselves? (still talking about the ss109 ect) After all, we could load them in 22-250 or 220 swift ect. Well that is until the ATF sees a 22-250 in Remington XP100!

[Guest GunTroll]

I will refrain from speaking badly about the kind, immensely intelligent, ever diligent folks down at the BATFE who are out there to protect you and I from evil doers.

[ttocswob]

Arbitrary ruling, search warrant the same day, raid the next morning. Confiscation of items that were completely legal less than 24 hours earlier. Ex post facto, anyone?

The BATFE is a criminal enterprise. Molon Labe...

[Caster]

The BATFE is a criminal enterprise. Molon Labe...

Hardly, although they should be. Criminals can and do get prosecuted. They serve sentences and pay fines. ATF? Not so much.

[DaveTN]

Someone fill us in with “The rest of the storyâ€. I’m still not sure what they did wrong, but if everyone is making this ammunition why was Elite Ammunition the only business targeted?

Were they warned? Did they do something (or make something) to intentionally test or piss off the ATF?

[MacGyver]

Someone fill us in with “The rest of the story”. I’m still not sure what they did wrong, but if everyone is making this ammunition why was Elite Ammunition the only business targeted?

Were they warned? Did they do something (or make something) to intentionally test or piss off the ATF?

Word on the street is that the Trident ammo referred to in the OP isn't pure copper like a lot of other solids on the market. It is a copper alloy containing a high percentage of zinc and a little tin.

In the engineering world, we have another name for this alloy - we call it brass. Brass bullets are a no go in pistols according to the current rules.

If you look at any forums where the Trident rounds are discussed, they are commonly referred to as solid brass.

Sounds to me like the guys at Elite should have known better.

Edited July 13, 2011 by MacGyver

[MacGyver]

Here's a pic of some of their 62gr .223

Call it copper alloy if you want. But, I can see how the casual observer might call it brass.

[Seaslug]

Word on the street is that the Trident ammo referred to in the OP isn't pure copper like a lot of other solids on the market. It is a copper alloy containing a high content of zinc.

In the engineering world, we have another name for this alloy - brass. Brass bullets are a no go in pistols according to the current rules.

If you look at any forums where the Trident rounds are discussed, they are commonly referred to as solid brass.

Sounds to me like the guys at Elite should have known better.

But the loadings weren't considered pistol cartridges until (apparently) the day before the raid, so they were perfectly legal when they were being produced.

[MacGyver]

But the loadings weren't considered pistol cartridges until (apparently) the day before the raid, so they were perfectly legal when they were being produced.

Yeah, I don't disagree. It seems most of Elite's production was for the 5.7. I can certainly see how if they planned to take that ammo, they might have just conveniently lumped all of it together.

[FUJIMO]

Anyone have an update on this ?

[dlm37015]

i am glad i have lots of ss109