Executive order-New Gun laws

[Pengnpup]

Obama Executive Orders Impose New Gun Rules | Breaking news and opinion on The Blaze

[1gewehr]

Executive Orders only affect Federal agencies. He can require the ATF to collect that information. He cannot legally require FFLs to comply without changing the law.

[LagerHead]

Executive Orders only affect Federal agencies. He can require the ATF to collect that information. He cannot legally require FFLs to comply without changing the law.

That's good news. Not that this would have done anything. People would have simply gone to Colorado or Utah to avoid being on the report. Not that the majority of Mexico's illegal weapons come from the U.S. in the first place.

[Caster]

I don't see how any law could change anything. Why is it that the supposed 'intellectuals' in charge lack the sense to understand....Those drug lords??? They are billionaires!!!! Hey guess what!?!!? A billionaire gets what a billionaire wants and it doesn't matter who likes it or don't. You CANNOT stop that kind of wealth/power from acquiring material goods. It may cost them more, but what do they care, they can just throw millions at it!

[Guest thorn]

The ATF works off their ATF Handbook. I've heard the argument here before that "it's not Law" but I don't have the bottomless pocket book (like they do) to fight them.

[Jonnin]

I wonder if a 223 is bigger than a 22 caliber. Probably. What an idiot, there are dozens of low powered, larger caliber rifles -- by this stupid defination a 9mm carbine is a High powered rifle with that evil magazine detachment. Heck a glock handgun is a high powered rifle by this defination. The only thing in there that I agree with are harsher penalties for gun crime, which is fine so long as government is not in charge of it -- they cannot be trusted to do even that much. Once the harsher penalties are enacted, the O and his goons needs to go to jail for selling guns to mexico under these new conditions.

[Seaslug]

“A national electronic system designed to make background checks for handgun buyers simpler and faster, leaving an electronic paper trail..."

Did anyone else notice this? Back-door registration specific to handguns. Nice.

[Lumber_Jack]

Did anyone else notice this? Back-door registration specific to handguns. Nice.

My exact thoughts. Sugar coat it with saying "faster and easier".

[Chief07]

This idiot is out of control.

He ignors the constitution, by-passes congress, and thinks he is a ruler.

2012 can't come soon enough.

We need to take our country back.

[chemprof]

This idiot is out of control.

He ignors the constitution, by-passes congress, and thinks he is a ruler.

2012 can't come soon enough.

We need to take our country back.

^^^^ THIS! I have been so astonished by any gun and 2A supporter saying that BHO is not a threat and that the rest of us were/are overreacting. They will never stop.......

[G27]

Did anyone else notice this? Back-door registration specific to handguns. Nice.

It came out a year or two ago that the ATF was keeping the BG checks on file for new purchases. Nothing ever came of that. To assume the ATF / FBI / whatever agency isn't keeping the NICS info is a bit naive, methinks, regardless of the law.

The reality is, registration doesn't happen until they stop private sales.

[Seaslug]

It came out a year or two ago that the ATF was keeping the BG checks on file for new purchases. Nothing ever came of that. To assume the ATF / FBI / whatever agency isn't keeping the NICS info is a bit naive, methinks, regardless of the law.

The reality is, registration doesn't happen until they stop private sales.

They were ordered to destroy the records when that information went public. Whether they did or not, of course, is anyone's guess. Still, it was a black eye for the agency, because maintaining those records was illegal. With this new executive order, it would certainly appear that they have come up with a means of de facto registration without having to bother changing those pesky laws. And as for private sales, we all already know how the current administration feels about those...

[G27]

They were ordered to destroy the records when that information went public. Whether they did or not, of course, is anyone's guess.

I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count...

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

I was told by an FFL here that he was required to keep the 4473's forever and then if he went out of business that he was to turn them over to ATF. Would that not be a DE-facto registration already? This conversation was a bit over a year ago so I guess things may have changed, I think I will ask him again soon.

Can any other FFL's here shed some light on that? What do you do with the forms?

I certainly dont think that the man would have outright lied to me as he would have no reason to, but I have always thought that the forms were supposed to be destroyed. And even if they were there would still be a record of the computer check on someones hard drive somewhere...would there not?

Any such records would of course not be able to trace the weapon forever but would record who bought it new, when and from whom. To me this is already darn near a registration.

[Seaslug]

I was told by an FFL here that he was required to keep the 4473's forever and then if he went out of business that he was to turn them over to ATF. Would that not be a DE-facto registration already? This conversation was a bit over a year ago so I guess things may have changed, I think I will ask him again soon.

Can any other FFL's here shed some light on that? What do you do with the forms?

I certainly dont think that the man would have outright lied to me as he would have no reason to, but I have always thought that the forms were supposed to be destroyed. And even if they were there would still be a record of the computer check on someones hard drive somewhere...would there not?

Any such records would of course not be able to trace the weapon forever but would record who bought it new, when and from whom. To me this is already darn near a registration.

I don't have an FFL, but what your friend told you is true. It's been discussed here before, and your concerns are VERY valid. The only saving grace is that the BATFE boys don't get their hands on the books (presuming they're destroying their NICS checks like they're supposed to ) unless and until the shop goes out of business. All the more reason to keep supporting your local gun shops!

[Tim Nunan]

I was told by an FFL here that he was required to keep the 4473's forever and then if he went out of business that he was to turn them over to ATF. Would that not be a DE-facto registration already? This conversation was a bit over a year ago so I guess things may have changed, I think I will ask him again soon.

Can any other FFL's here shed some light on that? What do you do with the forms?

I certainly dont think that the man would have outright lied to me as he would have no reason to, but I have always thought that the forms were supposed to be destroyed. And even if they were there would still be a record of the computer check on someones hard drive somewhere...would there not?

Any such records would of course not be able to trace the weapon forever but would record who bought it new, when and from whom. To me this is already darn near a registration.

A former FFl told when he closed down he sent in the required records with a signature required receipt. Post office delivered the records but ATF (or whomever received them) refused to sign for them.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I thought the Tiarht Amendment, a few years back, was supposed to severely

limit the gov's ability to get their hands on records.

[Guest Synghyn]

I guess I fall in with crimsonaudio on this. If you believe that the government entities, whichever you feel like calling the bogeyman today, is not keeping the records, I think your being a little naive. If you think that the government in any sense has your "best interests at heart", I would say the same. Democrat or Republican, by and large all the same. I wish I could believe different, but I can't look at the state of the country at this point and make myself believe it. I think our best saving grace at this point may be that the BATFE is just as incompetent at their job as any other federal agency and is not efficient enough to be useful.

Jon