Ashland City permit holder shooting / getting killled.

[aquaman67]

A few weeks ago there was a permit holder that shot someone else, got the gun taken from him and killed with it. It was in the Tennessean.Does anyone know what gun was used? Not that it really matters, but I'm just curious and it may influence what I carry.

[Guest Woodandsteel]

The kind of gun it was has nothing to do with someone's ability to overpower him and take it away.

[aquaman67]

The kind of gun it was has nothing to do with someone's ability to overpower him and take it away.

I agree. But...He shot the guy twice before the gun was taken from him. I've heard it was a .380.I just wondered if anyone here actually knew for sure. I realize too, that shot placement is also key.

[LagerHead]

There was a guy in Memphis a year or two ago that got shot 16 times with a .40 and walked to the ambulance. A trooper in North Carolina shot a guy 3 times at point blank range with a .357 magnum, turned his back and then was killed with his own weapon when he turned his back and the guy took it from him.

Point is, the caliber debate is overplayed. Shot placement and situational awareness are king.

[Guest nicemac]

To actually answer your question, yes, it was a .380. (I have no first-hand knowledge, just read it a week or so ago in an update to the story)

[partypilot1]

Caliber, does in fact matter, along with shot placement.

This is the conclusion out of FBI's "Handgun Wounding Factors And Effectiveness"

Physiologically, no caliber or bullet is certain to incapacitate any individual unless the brain is hit.

Psychologically, some individuals can be incapacitated by minor or small caliber wounds. Those

individuals who are stimulated by fear, adrenaline, drugs, alcohol, and/or sheer will and survival

determination may not be incapacitated even if mortally wounded.

The will to survive and to fight despite horrific damage to the body is commonplace on the

battlefield, and on the street. Barring a hit to the brain, the only way to force incapacitation is to cause

sufficient blood loss that the subject can no longer function, and that takes time. Even if the heart is

instantly destroyed, there is sufficient oxygen in the brain to support full and complete voluntary action

for 10-15 seconds.

Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock"

of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The

bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid

bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the

1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "too little penetration will get you killed."42, 43 Given desirable and

reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound

by increasing the size of hole made by the bullet. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs

from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the

bigger bullet.44

[Guest bnoland]

There was a guy in Memphis a year or two ago that got shot 16 times with a .40 and walked to the ambulance.

It was two years ago last April. He is one of my bestfriends. He was actually shot 13 times and 3 exited. That was with .40 federal hydroshocks. He walked out and brought the 11 year old boy with him.

[RobertNashville]

In defensive shooting, you shoot to stop the threat - to me; a part of that is to continue to shoot until your attacker...your "threat" has either retreated or succored to his wounds and is no longer advancing on you. In other words, I'm not going to shoot twice and then stop; I'm going to keep shooting until there is no doubt in my mind that I'm no longer being threatened or until my magazine is empty.

As Col Cooper used to say, you are only outgunned if you miss and that statement has a lot of truth in in but at the end of the day, when choosing a weapon/round to carry, the lager/more powerful round you can carry the better...a .380 or a .38 can do the job under the right conditions but I'd still rather have a 9MM, .40 S&W or .45 ACP, 357 sig, etc.

Of course, Jeff Cooper also used to say that the first rule of gun fighting is to bring a gun - in other words, any gun of any caliber is far superior to no gun at all!