Intrastate firearms transfer

[scoutfsu]

Hopefully this is in the right place.....if not I apologize and would like it moved to the correct place.

I'm sure this has been covered, but I couldn't find it in a search. I came across a Glock 26 on ArmsList in Nashville and asked the owner if he ever made it to the Memphis area. He said no, the furthest he would go would be exit 188. Definitely too far of a drive for me so I asked if he would consider shipping it.

He's under the impression that you can only ship a firearm through an FFL. That's true.......for an OUT of state (interstate) transfer. Intrastate, you can ship a firearm (provided you follow the carrier's rules). It's just like meeting me on the exit of I40 or the parking lot of the local gun store.

I understand if someone is more comfortable going through an FFL, especially with a guy you've never met or spoken to. That's his right and I respect that. I thanked him for his time and moved on. However, I think people should be aware of the actual law. Sorta how my LEO friend told me my suppressor was illegal....I had to help him become informed / familiar with the law for the next time he runs into someone with one and the proper paperwork.

I mentioned that he could look up the law himself or check here on TGO.....and he told me he was already a member! So that's good.....I hope he sees this.

For reference:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faqindex.htm

(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [back]

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b8

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

[scoutfsu]

Lol, that was my first post.....I guess the intro page doesn't count.

[Oh Shoot]

Everything you posted is correct.

However, good luck getting UPS or FedEx to actually ship the gun to a non-license holder, even though their own TOS allows it.

Btw, the BATF FAQ is wrong about notification. Only sending to non-license holder requires notification. Which in your instance it does.

- OS

Edited June 28, 2011 by OhShoot

[Links2k]

Everything you posted is correct.

However, good luck getting UPS or FedEx to actually ship the gun to a non-license holder, even though their own TOS allows it.

Btw, the BATF FAQ is wrong about notification. Only sending to non-license holder requires notification. Which in your instance it does.

- OS

This! The last weapon that I shipped UPS made it clear that the weapon had to be shipped to a licensee.

[scoutfsu]

I don't know about FedEx, but UPS has done it for me before. They are sporadic with their terms of service. I've found that you need to go to an actual shipping hub, not one of the satellite stores. I've done it twice. The second time, I had to show them their own rules but it went out.

Like I said, I understand that guy didn't want to ship to a non-FFL, especially someone he's never met/spoken to before. It's just kind of annoying when someone tells you something is illegal and it's 100% legal.

[tnhawk]

It may take less time to drive and transfer a firearm in person, than to ship a firearm.

[scoutfsu]

Very true. However in this particular situation, I would've had to drive a 6 hour round trip to/from Nville. It is way cheaper to ship than pay the $3.50+ gal of gas.

[DaveTN]

Selling a firearm face to face to a Tennessee resident and shipping a firearm to a Tennessee resident are two totally separate issues. If you tell someone you will ship; make sure you can. I accepted an offer and told a forum member I would ship overnight; UPS refused and it cost me a drive to Chattanooga.

I just don’t buy/sell any more from private individuals that would require shipping.

[scoutfsu]

Did you go to one of the UPS franchises or to a main hub? That's the difference maybe. It can be done.....but generally, not at the franchises.

Also, I don't see how a FTF and shipping to a TN resident are two separate issues (unless I'm missing your point). They both involve legally selling a firearm to a legal recipient. The only issue that arises is when UPS/FedEx misinterprets their own rules - and that can be worked out.

When I was in WA, I attempted to ship a pistol through the local UPS Store in Yelm. I had to drive out to UPS Customer Center in Tumwater in order to ship it. The first time, no problem. The second time, I had to show the lady the UPS rules on paper before she finally accepted the package.

[DaveTN]

By two separate issues I mean that one involves what is legal, the other is the whim of the shipper; no one is required to ship a firearm.

Yes, I was at the main hub (in Murfreesboro). I called UPS corporate. There was no “working it out”. They told me that because a firearm was involved they would not override the decision on the local “Security Officer”.

Its hit or miss, so I decided not to do it any more; too much drama.

[scoutfsu]

Ok, tracking. Funny how companies won't enforce their own policies.

[Oh Shoot]

There's a real irony involved with the UPS/FedEx thing.

Federal law says you must notify the carrier only if NOT going to a licensee on the receiving end. But it also says that no notation must be made on package to indicate it is a firearm. And AFAIK the agent makes no notation on any other paperwork -- certainly if you have an account and print your own label they don't.

Point is, there's no enforcement possible of the notification part of that law.

- OS

[bigwakes]

Is there a penalty for not notifying? I have shipped two guns to manufacturers for service and was never asked by the UPS guy who it was going to. I did mention they were firearms and the guy had a look on his face like "why are you telling me?"

[Oh Shoot]

Is there a penalty for not notifying? I have shipped two guns to manufacturers for service and was never asked by the UPS guy who it was going to. I did mention they were firearms and the guy had a look on his face like "why are you telling me?"

Contrary to BATF "faq" everybody quotes from their website, notification not required under the statutes when sending to FFL.

I have never found the penalty section for 18 U. S. C. 922 stuff. Just as with SKS conversion parts law, nobody has ever been able to point to where anyone has been charged with "not informing" a common carrier or USPS.

- OS

Edited July 5, 2011 by OhShoot