1 dead, 1 injured in Ashland City shooting

[Guest UberDuper]

I'll see your silver haired old lady and raise you some Offspring

YouTube - ‪The Offspring-Bad Habit‬‏

Uhh bad language warning btw.

Edited June 23, 2011 by UberDuper

[Guest WyattEarp]

I'll see your silver haired old lady and raise you some Offspring

YouTube - ‪The Offspring-Bad Habit‬‏

Uhh bad language warning btw.

#winning! I love that song! Listen to it when I have the misfortune of having to drive in rush hour! the perfect road rage song!

[Guest cappy]

They are still looking at this case to see if somthing else started the whole thing before the road rage the weapon used was a .380 I Don't think i should go into any more detail! sorry

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

the weapon used was a .380

If thats true that could help explain why the guy who lived got shot twice, with one shot being point blank to his face, & still had enough fight in him to take the gun away & kill the other guy.

Edited June 25, 2011 by ArmaDeFuego

[Guest midnitelamp]

no pistol is a death ray,yet. this is fighting,you still have to fire and maneuver.

[G27]

If thats true that could help explain why the guy who lived got shot twice, with one shot being point blank to his face, & still had enough fight in him to take the gun away & kill the other guy.

That doesnt lend too much weight to the arguments that pocket pistols make good self defense weapons (again, if its true that the weapon was a .380.)

Nah, it has way more to do with the fight in the man than the caliber.

Handguns are a compromise, no way around it.

[Garufa]

If thats true that could help explain why the guy who lived got shot twice, with one shot being point blank to his face, & still had enough fight in him to take the gun away & kill the other guy.

That doesnt lend too much weight to the arguments that pocket pistols make good self defense weapons (again, if its true that the weapon was a .380.)

For every example of a .380 not dropping someone stone cold dead in their tracks there is also an example of everything up to a .45 having the same results. Do we really need yet another caliber debate?

[Guest Lester Weevils]

What would be the better natural protection from a bullet-- Lots of blubber or lots of muscle?

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

Do we really need yet another caliber debate?

Hell no! If thats whats gonna happen I'll just delete my post lol :-)

[Garufa]

Hell no! If thats whats gonna happen I'll just delete my post lol :-)

[tnhawk]

....If, God forbid, you are ever put in that situation you would just have to do what you think is right for you at the time & then live with the consequences.

Consequences don't mean much if you don't live to face them.

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

A little update on this case:

Grand jury to decide charges in deadly shooting case | The Tennessean | tennessean.com

The two guys were Shannon Scott Paul, 40, (who died) and Ryan Neal Dickens, 34. I only mention their names here to make it easier to discuss the events. (Instead of saying "the one guy shot the first guy who had punched the other dude, etc)

Looks like Dickens started the physical fight by throwing the first punch, then Paul pulled out his gun & shot Dickens twice. Dickens then got Paul's gun away from him & chased him around a restaurant & ultimately shot him twice in the chest, killing him.

This case is going to go to the grand jury soon. If I was on the jury, just based on the evidence we have so far (which granted, is not ALL the evidence) I think I would have to recommend that they indict Dickens for 2nd degree murder.

What do you guys think?

[Guest UberDuper]

I'd hate to be on that jury.

[DaveTN]

What do you guys think?

If we assume what’s in that story is the truth….

Paul was armed and followed Dickens into the parking lot and started the sequence of events that led to his death. You don’t stop and get involved in road rage incidents when you are armed.

Obviously Dickens was no longer in danger when he killed Paul.

It’s hard to tell what a Grand Jury will do; they generally are just a rubber stamp for whatever the DA wants to do.

My feelings are that Paul screwed up and paid for it with his life. Even though the threat to Dickens was over I can’t believe a person would be thinking straight after they had been shot… twice. For that reason, coupled with the fact that Paul stopped, I could not convict Dickens. If I was the DA, I wouldn’t be convening a Grand Jury unless there is more than what is in that story.

Of course all this is based on my arm chair quarterbacking of an event described in a couple of paragraphs in a news story.

[G27]

If we assume what’s in that story is the truth….

Paul was armed and followed Dickens into the parking lot and started the sequence of events that led to his death. You don’t stop and get involved in road rage incidents when you are armed.

Obviously Dickens was no longer in danger when he killed Paul.

It’s hard to tell what a Grand Jury will do; they generally are just a rubber stamp for whatever the DA wants to do.

My feelings are that Paul screwed up and paid for it with his life. Even though the threat to Dickens was over I can’t believe a person would be thinking straight after they had been shot… twice. For that reason, coupled with the fact that Paul stopped, I could not convict Dickens. If I was the DA, I wouldn’t be convening a Grand Jury unless there is more than what is in that story.

Of course all this is based on my arm chair quarterbacking of an event described in a couple of paragraphs in a news story.

Yah, that pretty much sums up how I feel, especially the part in bold...

[Fallguy]

It will be interesting to see what happens...

[JAB]

If we assume what’s in that story is the truth….

Paul was armed and followed Dickens into the parking lot and started the sequence of events that led to his death. You don’t stop and get involved in road rage incidents when you are armed.

Obviously Dickens was no longer in danger when he killed Paul.

It’s hard to tell what a Grand Jury will do; they generally are just a rubber stamp for whatever the DA wants to do.

My feelings are that Paul screwed up and paid for it with his life. Even though the threat to Dickens was over I can’t believe a person would be thinking straight after they had been shot… twice. For that reason, coupled with the fact that Paul stopped, I could not convict Dickens. If I was the DA, I wouldn’t be convening a Grand Jury unless there is more than what is in that story.

Of course all this is based on my arm chair quarterbacking of an event described in a couple of paragraphs in a news story.

I'm thinking along the same lines as you except we (or at least I) still don't know for sure that Paul pulled over to fight. Maybe he was stopping because he intended to go into the Mexican restaurant and Dickens followed him and punched him. If that is the case (and such could somehow be verified by witnesses, etc.), I'd convict in a heartbeat. If not then, yeah, I hardly think you can use the 'reasonable person' criteria to judge a guy who has just been shot unjustifiably and, for all he knows, is dying and is chasing his murderer to confront him (and put paid to him) before succumbing to his own injuries.

Any way you look at it, though, this is a big cluster-eff all the way around. It doesn't sound like there was any good reason to start slinging fists, much less lead. This reflects poorly on HCP holders, in general, and gives anti-carry folks something to point at to say, "See, this is what happens when an HCP holder gets mad at someone over some trivial incident. Both parties get shot and one of them ends up dead."

Edited July 6, 2011 by JAB

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

I'm thinking along the same lines as you except we (or at least I) still don't know for sure that Paul pulled over to fight. Maybe he was stopping because he intended to go into the Mexican restaurant and Dickens followed him and punched him. If that is the case (and such could somehow be verified by witnesses, etc.), I'd convict in a heartbeat. If not then, yeah, I hardly think you can use the 'reasonable person' criteria to judge a guy who has just been shot unjustifiably and, for all he knows, is dying and is chasing his murderer to confront him (and put paid to him) before succumbing to his own injuries.

From the article:

"Ashland City police chief Marc Coulon said Dickens had an appointment at Star Physical Therapy, a business in the shopping center."

Looks like Dickens pulled in there 'cause he had an appointment. Paul pulled up beside him & probably started a verbal altercation.

I definitely agree with you that this whole case is one giant "cluster-eff" though!!!

Edited July 7, 2011 by ArmaDeFuego

[aquaman67]

If thats true that could help explain why the guy who lived got shot twice, with one shot being point blank to his face, & still had enough fight in him to take the gun away & kill the other guy.

If guy A shoots guy B in the face, only grazing his cheek and then in the leg, even with a 10mm that probably wouldn't kill guy B.

Now the real question is how many times did guy B shoot guy A with the SAME .380 to kill him?

Once?

I haven't read any account of how many shots guy B fired.

Edited July 11, 2011 by aquaman67

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

Now the real question is how many times did guy B shoot guy A with the SAME .380 to kill him?

Once?

I haven't read any account of how many shots guy B fired.

I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that he shot him twice in the chest.

[G27]

Hrmm, I thought the guy who was initially shot (the one who lived) was shot twice in the chest...

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

Hrmm, I thought the guy who was initially shot (the one who lived) was shot twice in the chest...

No he was shot once in the face & once in the leg. The guy who died took 2 to the chest.

[G27]

No he was shot once in the face & once in the leg. The guy who died took 2 to the chest.

Thanks for the clarification, makes more sense...

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

A little update on this story. Grand jury returned the indictment:

Man indicted on two charges in deadly shooting | The Tennessean | tennessean.com

Voluntary manslaughter & reckless endangerment.

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

It will be interesting to see if this goes to trial or if he goes for a plea deal. If it goes to trial it would be reaaally interesting to see what a jury does with it, once all the facts are known. We still dont really know a whole lot....