What's your def for a Military Rifle in the event of an all out war ?

[bajabuc]

I'm old so mine is:

Simple enough for Joe Idiot to disassemble completely, clean and reassemble in the dark. (Light on the battlefield draws fire.)

Sturdy enough to hit your enemy with when you're out of ammo...and knock him out so he can be stickered.

Easy to reload single cart. on top of a near full mag...nothing gets your enemy like messing up his counting your shots.

Accurate out to 400 yards or so but able to make thousand yard shots count if the shooter can see that far..

Low profile...I'm not sticking my head out any farther than I absolutely have to.

[Ramjo]

What about low maintenance?

Fires the enemy's round?

The rest up there makes sense to me.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I'm old so mine is:

Simple enough for Joe Idiot to disassemble completely, clean and reassemble in the dark. (Light on the battlefield draws fire.)

Sturdy enough to hit your enemy with when you're out of ammo...and knock him out so he can be stickered.

Easy to reload single cart. on top of a near full mag...nothing gets your enemy like messing up his counting your shots.

Accurate out to 400 yards or so but able to make thousand yard shots count if the shooter can see that far..

Low profile...I'm not sticking my head out any farther than I absolutely have to.

I seriously doubt there will be any shot counting these days because of all the automatic rifles as well as the high capacity magazines that can be loaded to varying capacities. I load my AR mags with 28 rounds rather than 30, not that 30 rounds is all that bad.

I would shorten the distance on the max range. I would say 200 yards would be fine for most engagements we are going to see. Also, I wouldn't want to carry a 1,000 yard gun day in and day out. You are going to have a heavy weighing gun or a heavy kicking gun. And the ammo choices for a 1,000 yard gun are going to be heavy to carry as well.

As far as cleaning I have never had to clean a rifle in the dark. Cleaning isn't an emergency situation that requires it to be done right then and right there in the middle of the night. I would venture a guess and say most could wait until light to do it. Immediate actions drills are another but they generally don't require disassembly. Remedial action drills, when the immediate action drills fail, often do require a bit more work but remidial action drills are generally a rare bird these days with the reliable weapons in use.

I guess a bolt gun in 30-06 would fit your need although I think it is a bit more than what is needed today. Even a Garand or an M-14 would as well but both of those are very heavy to be carrying day to day. For me the lightest weapon that can fill the likely range is what I would be looking for. An AR or an AK would likely be my primary choice with the preference being an AR.

As far as the caliber choice for me it would be 5.56. After all who are we most likely to have to defend from en masse and what are they going to be using? Most agencies as well as most countries in the world that would attack us would now use the standard Nato round, which is the 5.56, so that is what I would choose. An AR would be the first choice as well because of its widespread use. Parts are everywhere and will be available even if they are liberated from a captured rifle.

In WWII the Garand was state of the art and the bolt action was the standard. These days either of them are far from being the best choice. I'll take a modern automatic rifle over a botl gun any day for day to day operations.

Dolomite

[Magiccarpetrides]

I would have to second Dolomite

[DaveTN]

In the event of an all out war it won't be here, and I'm too old to be sent anywhere. But I'll play anyway.

My battle rifle would be my DPMS 308 Panther.

2nd would be my M1 Garand

3rd would be my M&P15T

Long range sniper would be my Remington 700 VLS 308.

"Walking around" rifle would be my M1 Carbine

As long as my property is standing; I'm not leaving it. If I do need to leave I have a Suburban. So I don't see carrying stuff as a big issue.

[Raoul]

I also agree with Dolomite. I would add that the other thing to think about is being able to access ammo from your enemy. That probably narrows it down the the AR or AK.

[Capbyrd]

Whatever is closest will do just fine. Then I'll pick through the dead bodies until I find something I like better.

[Il Duce]

Whatever is closest will do just fine. Then I'll pick through the dead bodies until I find something I like better.

Ding ding ding

[bajabuc]

Ding ding ding

+this

I'm thinking the next all out will be here...and it will be our army we're fighting. I don't expect to last long.

Edited June 20, 2011 by bajabuc

[Moped]

Dolomite hit the nail on the head. AR or Ak are the way to go. I'd probably AK over an AR for the idiot proofing and simplicity. I've always shot the M16 when I was in the military and on the 125th ARCOM Rifle Team I shot the M14. I now own an AK and of the three the AK is the simpliest, but probably the least accurate. I figure though that now the AK is easily found in the U.S. that you will see the accuracy on these rifles go up. Us Americans will tinker with it until we make it more accurate, just like we did with the AR.

[DaveTN]

I can honestly say that I pray if I ever have to face another rifleman in combat I am armed with my riles and he has an AK.

[bigwakes]

AKs are more accurate than I am. I've never had one out to 300, but I used to hit 1x1 sticks at 50 yards. If it was all out war I would grab my AR, but would not hesitate to grab my AK either.

[gregintenn]

I would fare just as well with a 94 Winchester and a pocket full of ammo as anything I could think of.

[Caster]

Simple 16" 1/7 AR. No tacticool nonsense, just a flat top with QD scope and BUIS.

[Guest SUNTZU]

An eighteen wheeler load of chocolate, another of tampons, and the UTK sororities. SunTzu uber alles!

[Guest Laufer]

Have you guys watched "Hickok45" on Youtube? The AK clone is an effective weapon in his hands.

Even though one video has him shooting a metal gong from about 200 yards, the rifle is a WASR and he is in a free stance. He seldom misses.

Edited June 21, 2011 by Laufer

[Dolomite_supafly]

While working overseas some of our Afghan guys that could hit man sized steel targets out to 350 yards 7 out of 10 times. This was with 50's era AK's and open sights. We also had quality, brass cased ammo for them to use. It was odd but we always had brass cased Russian calibers. If I could have brought back just the brass it would have been worth a mint.

I think the AK's inaccurcays are caused by crappy ammo more so than the weapon's design. After all you feed any rifle crap ammo it is going to shoot like crap.

Dolomite

[Guest robinsonfam1]

long post....sorry

1000 yard gun is not real heavy nor expensive. they dont have to be a bench gun nor a bmg etc.....

you can easily achieve those ranges with a 300mag, 7mm, stw, 338, so on so forth. these guns can be made as low as 8#.

when youre talking about a 1000yd gun youre also not talking about a bug out/in gun, youre talking about a long range defensive weapon or support fire for your men when you are moving in. same thing with a .50. its not meant to be carried through woods/urban as a replacement to an AR/AK or the like. you have to remember what the gun/weapon is designed for. you dont use your XD or glock, etc for 200 yard shots. likewise a porsche should not be your bug out vehicle when you know that you will have to go off road. vice/versa.

3 main guns of my choice for SHTF situation:

9mm pistol more likely to find 9mil on anyone over a .357/44/.45 for example

12G shotty. a

assault rifle of your choice. (5.56 or 7.62 is my choice)

Bonus:

7 mag built gun. 1000 yards all day with a proficient shooter. .308 is good to and ammo is easier to find than 7 mag. real bonus!:.50.......done!....you can stop anything with the right ammo

[Raoul]

[Raoul]

.

[enfield]

I would seriously consider my 2A Enfield in 7.62 NATO. *However, in consideration of my age, I'd probably prefer to outfit a squad and stay home.

[dlm37015]

last time i had a ge mini gun and a 40 mm launcher that would work for me again although i think now the minis are dillon areos btw i carried a s&w model 10 in 38 spl for a backup

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

I would seriously consider my 2A Enfield in 7.62 NATO. *However, in consideration of my age, I'd probably prefer to outfit a squad and stay home.

A big Amen to that!

Given no choice I would have to go with what I own and am familiar with, an AR.

I was good enough in the military to hit anything at 300 meters and actually had more problems with the 200 and 250 meter targets, due mostly I believe to big-headed-ness after hitting at 300.

A good capacity 9mm on my hip would make things much better and would be part of the equation, I dont expect to be forced into a situation yet still have time to go out and buy something else that I may want so it would be using what I have.

So for me it is an AR.....America's Rifle

[camp]

i'll stick with my sks, never had a jam out of the 1000+ rounds put through it

[Guest Laufer]

Our enemy is already here, $14,000,000,000,000 of projected federal debt.

If my SKS, Enfields, Garand and Spanish FR8 Mauser are not enough, then to quote the little girl warning Sigorney Weaver in 'Aliens' (about the Space Marines): "It won't make any difference".

Edited July 8, 2011 by Laufer