Single Action?

[Smith]

Question? In the store today and the clerk tells me no gun without a hammer can be SA and all striker fired are double action. Why then does the XD, SR9, ect. only able to shoot once cocked. Are they DA?

I know there is some symantics involved, but am I just misinformed?

Edited March 2, 2008 by Smith

[Im Neero]

I consider the XD single action.

[molonlabetn]

Very few striker fired pistols are truly Double-Action or DA-only, since they must be manually re-cocked in order to re-strike.

Walther P99AS, Taurus 24/7 and Mil-Pro are a few exceptions.

Glocks, M&Ps, XDs, SR9s, P99QAs, etc... are all functionally identical (ie, trigger will only function in one mode, pre-cocked... no re-strike capability) The closest relative of this type of function is Single Action, in exposed-hammer pistols.

So, the information you were given is inaccurate... this type of misinformation is common, however, due to the lack of technical competence by certain agencies who label some striker-fired pistols as DAO, and others as SA, even when their function in actual use is identical.

In fact, the clerk's statement that striker fired guns cannot be single-action is pretty foolish when you consider that the majority of bolt-action rifles are in fact striker fired... and nobody calls them Double-Action-Only, regardless of whether the motion of the trigger retracts the striker a few thousands during the disengagement of the sear. The categorization of certain pistol triggers which operate this way as DAO is simply misinformation.

[Im Neero]

I think part of the confusion is that marketing departments won't just call them single action. Springfield calls theirs the Ultra Safety Assurance (USA) action, Glock calls theirs the Safe Action, and who knows what else.

It's just because they a) want to be different and new and b)know that if people realized that they were walking around with a single action pistol with no safety they might not be too keen about that idea.

[Smith]

I think part of the confusion is that marketing departments won't just call them single action. Springfield calls theirs the Ultra Safety Assurance (USA) action, Glock calls theirs the Safe Action, and who knows what else.

It's just because they a) want to be different and new and b)know that if people realized that they were walking around with a single action pistol with no safety they might not be too keen about that idea.

That was part of his argument, because the company calls them such and such then that is what they are.

BTW does anyone ask questions of employees they already know the answer to, to test their competence and or honesty?

[Im Neero]

Not intentionally, but normally within about 1 minute I can tell if the guy knows what he is talking about or not.

[Guest stoker_w]

I'm not a long-time gun owner, but I still find the difference between single action and double action and the grey area in between pretty confusing.

I recently bought a Glock 26 and as far as I can tell it's essential a single action. With some safeties involved. I think you're right about the whole consumer not liking that idea thing.

I also own a SW9VE and think it's in the same category. I don't know though. I guess, like nsate had said, it's just semantics. As for talking to gun shop employees, it's pretty interesting. I'm new at this stuff but even I've talked to an employee or two who struck me as being a lot of talk but not a lot of understanding. It IS easy to spot them...

[The Rabbi]

As for talking to gun shop employees, it's pretty interesting. I'm new at this stuff but even I've talked to an employee or two who struck me as being a lot of talk but not a lot of understanding. It IS easy to spot them...

Hey, you've never even been in my shop!

Anyway, technically, if the trigger pull does two things, then its double action. If it does one thing (i.e. release the hammer/striker) then it's single action.

People have called the Springfield and others single action. I dont know enough about how they work to comment on that. I do know IDPA considers them DAO and that's good enough for me.

[Im Neero]

The Glock is actually kind of a grey area. The trigger half cocks the striker, so you could call it a double action if you wanted to. The springfield trigger only releases the striker allowing the gun to fire, so the trigger only does one thing (unless you count the safety from that goofy nubbin thingie).

[The Rabbi]

The Colt Series 80 I think also has a goofy safety thingie, and that's certainly single action.

The problem is probably in the terminology, which hasnt kept up with the engineering.

[Guest nj.piney]

the kel tec pf9 does the same thing , when you load the chamber it half cocks ,

when you pull the trigger it is technically double action. but it makes for a lighter trigger pull.

Edited March 3, 2008 by nj.piney

[Guest Grout]

IDPA considers the XD a single action.IPSC/USPSA considers it a double action.

Edited March 2, 2008 by Grout

[molonlabetn]

The Glock is actually kind of a grey area. The trigger half cocks the striker, so you could call it a double action if you wanted to. The springfield trigger only releases the striker allowing the gun to fire, so the trigger only does one thing (unless you count the safety from that goofy nubbin thingie).

Not entirely true. The sear of the XD does indeed retract the striker slightly during the trigger pull, it's evident when placing a finger on the cocked indicator of a cleared pistol and dry-firing it, you will feel the striker move back.

The Glock moves it's striker rearward slightly more than the XD does during the trigger pull, but neither gun can completely recock the striker using only the trigger, thus they cannot be Double-Action-Only, by definition. By process of elimination, the only common definition for trigger function which fits the XD or Glock is Single-Action, for the above reasons. The most logical thing to do is recognize that any Bolt-Action rifle which uses a striker firing system is, in fact, defined as a Single-Action mechanism, and as such is a definition which applies to any striker fired system which cannot recock itself.