Trying to find what gun type was issued.

[Guest PapaB]

Here's the story.

My father was KIA in Korea in 1951. Is there a way I can find out what type of gun (or guns) he was issued. I'd like to find out with some certainty, not just "they typically issued this or that". He was a Sgt. in the Army Infantry and I'd like to buy a gun from the period that would be the same model he carried, as a way to honor his memory.

[Guest Keinengel]

Probably a Garand, M1A1 or M14.

[DMark]

PapaB,

You may never know for sure.

It could any of several firearms - - - M1 Garand, M1D, M1903A4, M1 Carbine, M3 Subgun, M1911A1, M1919A4 Machine Gun, BAR, etc., etc.,

You would need to know a little bit more information. Was your Dad a SGT (E-5) or a 1SG (E-8)? That could help to narrow down the guess, and it can only be a guess as to what weapon he could have been carrying. Once we know his actual rank, I would recommend that you acquire the type of weapon that the infantry TO&E (table of organization & equipment) called for his rank and position. Also knowing his unit will help.

My Dad was also a Korean War Vet. He started with a M1 Garand, "acquired" a M1 Carbine, "acquired" a M3 Grease Gun (hated it) and "re-acquired" another M1 Carbine. I use this as an example that without some sort of proof like a photo or mention of a firearm type in a letter home, you'll never really know for sure the type of firearm that your Dad used.

Its a great idea to honor his service with a firearm. I know when I hold and fire any of my Garands & Carbines, I like to think that it "could" be the one that my Dad carried.

And that is a Good Thing.

[bajabuc]

M-14 was beginning to be issued to special troops in 1957.

so no M14

Sargents were "sometimes" issued 1911's, tommy guns, m1 rifle, m1 carbine

A few Browning HiPowers, Colt .38 revolvers "Might be issued"

Issued and acquired are two different things.

Sargents didn't carry BMG

Thanks Wiki

Edited June 12, 2011 by bajabuc

[-boatman-]

My dad carried a M1 Garand and a BAR. He said he never saw many M1 Carbines where he was and never carried one. It looks like it could be several different ones and may be hard to pin it down.

[Mike.357]

since you may never really know you will have to get one of each. USGI M1 carbines are geting hard to come by.

[East_TN_Patriot]

My grandfather was in Korea and started out with an M1 Garand, but transferred to the ASA and carried an M1 Carbine and 1911 pistol when he was on an outpost in the former East Germany (not in Korea... I know).

[Randy L]

A Sgt would have likely carried a M1 Carbine but there is no guarantee just a guess

[VERO1]

I'll call my dad after while and ask him. He got to visit Germany and Korea during that era courtesy of the U.S.Army.

[bajabuc]

since you may never really know you will have to get one of each. USGI M1 carbines are geting hard to come by.

+1 and I like it

[Guest PapaB]

PapaB,

You may never know for sure.

It could any of several firearms - - - M1 Garand, M1D, M1903A4, M1 Carbine, M3 Subgun, M1911A1, M1919A4 Machine Gun, BAR, etc., etc.,

You would need to know a little bit more information. Was your Dad a SGT (E-5) or a 1SG (E-8)? That could help to narrow down the guess, and it can only be a guess as to what weapon he could have been carrying. Once we know his actual rank, I would recommend that you acquire the type of weapon that the infantry TO&E (table of organization & equipment) called for his rank and position. Also knowing his unit will help.

My Dad was also a Korean War Vet. He started with a M1 Garand, "acquired" a M1 Carbine, "acquired" a M3 Grease Gun (hated it) and "re-acquired" another M1 Carbine. I use this as an example that without some sort of proof like a photo or mention of a firearm type in a letter home, you'll never really know for sure the type of firearm that your Dad used.

Its a great idea to honor his service with a firearm. I know when I hold and fire any of my Garands & Carbines, I like to think that it "could" be the one that my Dad carried.

And that is a Good Thing.

I know he was an E-5 and his member occupation name was "LIGHT WEAPONS INFANTRY LEADER". I haven't figured out how to find the table of organization & equipment for the time period. I was hoping the military would have the kind of info I was looking for but I guess it's too much to ask of our government.

[DaveTN]

There is no way to know unless you made contact with someone that was there with him.

Any weapon you choose will honor your Fathers memory.

Sorry for your loss.

[bajabuc]

Have you tried this?

Please Wait...

Please Wait...

Info from the National Archives

[DMark]

I know he was an E-5 and his member occupation name was "LIGHT WEAPONS INFANTRY LEADER". I haven't figured out how to find the table of organization & equipment for the time period. I was hoping the military would have the kind of info I was looking for but I guess it's too much to ask of our government.

PapaB,

Your dad would have been in the Weapons Platoon of a Infantry Company. Within the Weapons Platoon there was two (sometimes four) light machine gun sections had served two (or four) belt fed M1919 Browning machine guns. Each section had four soldiers - Gunner, Asst Gunner, Ammo Bearer, and Section NCO (your Dad's position).

I don't have the breakdown of individual weapons of the light machine sections. The M1 Garand was the standard issue weapon for the Rifle Platoons of an Infantry Company, but the M1 Carbine along with the M3 'Grease' submachine guns supplanted rifles throughout the company. These weapons tended to gravitate towards NCOs who did not necessarily need to engage in long range fire fights, but who did need to lead the close assault (rifle platoon) or local defense (weapons platoon).

My best guess would be that your Dad could have been carrying a M1 Carbine or M3 submachine gun (with a 1911A1 thrown in for good measure).

But to know for sure what he should have been issued I would recommend contacting the National Infantry Museum just outside the Ft. Benning front gate in Columbus, Ga @ 706-685-5800. Ask to speak to one of the museum's staff historians. Tell them you have a question about the Infantry Company Table of Organization that your Dad served in during the Korean War.

[Daniel]

That is a great museum.

[MacGyver]

That is a great museum.

It is a great museum. So is the Fort Stewart Museum down in south Georgia. Just hearing the name reminds me of being a Boy Scout growing up. Our scoutmaster was a retired Colonel. If we were camping somewhere and our route to or from the trip passed any military museum, we stopped to check it out.

[Guest PapaB]

bajabuc

I did try the archives, I learned he was with the 17th infantry regiment 7th infantry division.

DMark

Thanks for that info, I'll try it.

[bajabuc]

Every soldier had to sign for his issued weapon. Somewhere...someplace...there's a record. The Army marches on it's stomach but it "moves" on paperwork.

[Guest PapaB]

Every soldier had to sign for his issued weapon. Somewhere...someplace...there's a record. The Army marches on it's stomach but it "moves" on paperwork.

Exactly why I foolishly thought there must be a place to contact (and online would have been nice).

[Daniel]

Every soldier had to sign for his issued weapon. Somewhere...someplace...there's a record. The Army marches on it's stomach but it "moves" on paperwork.

Yeah.. I have been an Armorer. You sign for it and once it has been turned back in we destroy the hand receipt.

[bajabuc]

Yeah.. I have been an Armorer. You sign for it and once it has been turned back in we destroy the hand receipt.

Since he was killed while in possession do you know for sure it was turned in?

[Daniel]

I know for sure that we have a thing called combat loss if it is lost and then it is written off the books.

[c.a.willard]

You may also try contacting the 7th Infantry Division Association. They are comprised of former members of the division and will more than likely have several members that served at the same time as your father. 7th Infantry Division Assn They also have a reunion comming up at the end of the month in MO if your interested in meeting some of the people in person. Best of luck to you in your search.

[Guest PapaB]

Thanks for that info.

[1gewehr]

Just as an FYI, have you been to this website?

Legal Eagle Productions

It seems that you may find some people to contact who can help you in your quest.

Just as an FYI, my Father was in the Infantry during Korea. He says a Infantry Sergeants typically were issued an M1 Garand. But in Korea, many 'obtained' an M3A1 Grease Gun or Thompson. The carbine developed a bad reputation during the winter of 1950/51 as it's reliability in extreme winter conditions was poor. Additionally, the bullet did not have enough energy in cold weather to reliably stop Chinese soldiers with heavy clothing and laden with equipment.

Edited September 5, 2011 by 1gewehr