Man sent to prison for illegal gun sales

[MikePapa1]

Man sent to prison for illegal gun sales | The Columbus Dispatch

I found the last sentence interesting. My wife says the same about me for the purchases she knows about. We don't have to tell everything.

[Photoguy67]

I wonder what would be the outcome of taking a case like this to scotus based on discrimination to small business. You have to have a store to get an ffl but you have to have a lot of capital to get the store, pretty much impossible to start part time business and grow it.

[Worriedman]

How long before they start mandating a certain number of purchases WITHOUT selling them back off as a crime? Say he had bought the 210 firearms since 1995, but had sold none, with the new powers vested in the BATFE under the Patriot Act, they will have access to the sales records.

How many guns constitute too many in the current administration's eyes?

[Mike.357]

I don't know any gun owners who have a compulsive buying disorder.

[Guest mosinon]

210 since 1995? It's 2011 and giving two years for the trial and investigation that's 14 years. So fifteen guns a year. I'd wager he's not making a living off it. Which should be obvious, if you have the cash you don't go to jail. Jail is for poor people and Martha Stewart.

[Oh Shoot]

....How many guns constitute too many in the current administration's eyes?

There are no written rules about that.

Like, 210 could be legal if letting go of personal guns over time or all at once, but only 1, with intent to buy and sell for a profit, could be prosecuted.

- OS

[Guest Lester Weevils]

There are no written rules about that.

Like, 210 could be legal if letting go of personal guns over time or all at once, but only 1, with intent to buy and sell for a profit, could be prosecuted.

- OS

So as long as I lose money on the deal it's OK? I'll never get in trouble then. I never make money on a deal.

[Dolomite_supafly]

So as long as I lose money on the deal it's OK? I'll never get in trouble then. I never make money on a deal.

It has nothing to do with turning a profit.

When you engage in buying with the intent of reselling them that is illegal. You don't have to loose money to be legal. And likewise making money selling guns isn't illegal. It is the action of buying guns with the intent of reselling them where the line is crossed. And when you buy hundreds of guns and sell hundreds of guns during the same time period it isn't that hard to figure out. It is when the buying and selling guns as a business enterprise without an FFL that is is a problem.

Go to the shows and you will see those "private" sellers at every show selling guns. They say it is part of their private collection but they will gladly buy yours, trade for yours as well as sell theirs. They are at every show and these are the ones who are circumventing the licensing procedures.

Dolomite

[Guest GunTroll]

I wonder what would be the outcome of taking a case like this to scotus based on discrimination to small business. You have to have a store to get an ffl but you have to have a lot of capital to get the store, pretty much impossible to start part time business and grow it.

Tell me about it. I have an FFL and what a pain in the arse it was to get to do what I do. Every aspect of grubment has their hands out. County,state,feds. PITA!!!!

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Thanks Dolomite. Was joking because my personality defect tends to hoarding rather than horse-trading. Have never sold a gun and only traded one off. Ain't bought all that many either, though.

Some folks are just eat up with that horse-trading gene. They get disappointed if you just sell to them at their offer price without haggling. Or buy from them at the asking price without endless pre-purchase price haggling. And they get tired of stuff quickly.

If it was illegal to compulsively buy and sell guitars, automobiles, antiques or radio/stereo/computer equipment, then there would be many more people in jail.

Am not saying that people should be free to ignore the law. Just that for some people, profit does not appear to be the motive for commercial behavior.

On the other hand, it is risky to guess a person's motivation based on his behavior. Some people work harder on their hobbies than most folks work on their real jobs.

When discriminating the difference between a business and a hobby, the IRS does not try real hard to read the mind of the taxpayer to intuit his motivations. If a taxpayer has a "business" which continuously loses money year after year, then that taxpayer better have a really good explanation or the IRS will rule the activity a hobby rather than a business and disqualify the fellow's business deductions.

Since the IRS uses this test to decide between businesses and hobbies, then it wouldn't be outrageous if the ATF decided to use the same test?

[Guest GunTroll]

Lester,

"Since the IRS uses this test to decide between businesses and hobbies, then it wouldn't be outrageous if the ATF decided to use the same test?"

I believe this is already standard operating procedure.

[DaveTN]

I’ m surprised more people haven’t been arrested for this; some have made themselves pretty easy targets.

Do a Google search and there are plenty of stories of people getting charged.

Anyone that can pass the background check and have secure storage of weapons, should be able to get an FFL.

I wonder if the fact that the SCOTUS has now ruled that owning a gun is an individual right, will impact the prohibitive laws on getting an FFL.

If I pay the money why should the ATF care if I ever sell a gun? And if I’m not creating a nuisance with people coming and going why should a city require me to be zoned for business to have an FFL?

[Guest GunTroll]

I’ m surprised more people haven’t been arrested for this; some have made themselves pretty easy targets.

Do a Google search and there are plenty of stories of people getting charged.

Anyone that can pass the background check and have secure storage of weapons, should be able to get an FFL.

I wonder if the fact that the SCOTUS has now ruled that owning a gun is an individual right, will impact the prohibitive laws on getting an FFL.

If I pay the money why should the ATF care if I ever sell a gun? And if I’m not creating a nuisance with people coming and going why should a city require me to be zoned for business to have an FFL?

Come on, you know the answer. Money! You pay to play. And they will get theirs!

Also, once you start talking feeing up zoning laws you could open up a can of worms.

[DaveTN]

Come on, you know the answer. Money! You pay to play. And they will get theirs!

Also, once you start talking feeing up zoning laws you could open up a can of worms.

I disagree.

This is one of the few things that has little to do with money; this is about gun control.

The Feds want to control who can sell guns and many of the local governments don’t want guns sold period.

If it was only about money I would be able to get an FFL.

[RobertNashville]

It has nothing to do with turning a profit.

When you engage in buying with the intent of reselling them that is illegal. You don't have to loose money to be legal. And likewise making money selling guns isn't illegal. It is the action of buying guns with the intent of reselling them where the line is crossed. And when you buy hundreds of guns and sell hundreds of guns during the same time period it isn't that hard to figure out. It is when the buying and selling guns as a business enterprise without an FFL that is is a problem.

Go to the shows and you will see those "private" sellers at every show selling guns. They say it is part of their private collection but they will gladly buy yours, trade for yours as well as sell theirs. They are at every show and these are the ones who are circumventing the licensing procedures.

Dolomite

While I don't get tables at gun shows, with few exceptions, almost every gun I've ever bought either has been or will eventually be sold so that I can buy another gun I like better...does that make me a criminal too???

Okay...I know I'm being a bit ridiculous with the above statement but 15 guns a year is not that many guns...maybe more than most people buy/sell in a year but still...that's only slightly more than once per month.

[Oh Shoot]

I disagree.

This is one of the few things that has little to do with money; this is about gun control.

The Feds want to control who can sell guns and many of the local governments don’t want guns sold period.

If it was only about money I would be able to get an FFL.

+1.

I'd love to have an FFL, great retirement part time "job" to sell a gun or 5 a month from home, just for fun of it and possible very modest extra income. But no chance of that for most any amount of money.

Why can I buy and sell for profit unlimited types of other legal products, even buy them used and re-sell them, but not guns? Dave's explanation is the only one that's reasonable.

- OS

[Guest GunTroll]

If I pay the money why should the ATF care if I ever sell a gun? And if I’m not creating a nuisance with people coming and going why should a city require me to be zoned for business to have an FFL?

I was/am only commenting based off of this statement/question. Zoning is all about money.

Apply for a zoning variance. Thats what I did. And I pay both Ag 1 & commercial property taxes for the same plot of land. Only my detached building is identified as commercial.

But of course every county is different I imagine. I had the good ol boy county commissioners and I'd guess they are pro gun.

[Oh Shoot]

I was/am only commenting based off of this statement/question. Zoning is all about money. ..

I've run legal biz, even with moderate foot traffic, out of my apartment, obviously not zoned commercial. City and county didn't mind taking my business license/tax money at all. And I paid personal property taxes, on equipment used in biz.

But they won't let me sell guns out of same place, and of course BATF won't let me with or without their permission anyway.

- OS

Edited June 11, 2011 by OhShoot

[Guest GunTroll]

Thats a drag.

Sounds like you have a lib infestation in your county government. Or good ol boys looking after good ol boys if you know what I mean.

Edited June 11, 2011 by GunTroll

[Oh Shoot]

Thats a drag.

Sounds like you have a lib infestation in your county government. Or good ol boys looking after good ol boys if you know what I mean.

To re-paraphrase Dave, whether it's case by case conscious effort, or has just evolved to be such by policy, it is de facto anti-gun enforcement, any way you want to explain it, and certainly not just around here.

- OS

[Guest GunTroll]

To re-paraphrase Dave, whether it's case by case conscious effort, or has just evolved to be such by policy, it is de facto anti-gun enforcement, any way you want to explain it, and certainly not just around here.

- OS

Perhaps. Like I said, its probably different for every county. I didn't receive any resistance for my application.

[Oh Shoot]

Perhaps. Like I said, its probably different for every county. I didn't receive any resistance for my application.

But you're in a shop, zoned commercial, right?

- OS

[Guest GunTroll]

But you're in a shop, zoned commercial, right?

- OS

I got a zoning variance for a detached building on my agriculture zoned residence, so yes. I displayed a sign on the curb, went in front of the Co. commissioners with all their required paperwork/documents/plot survey drafts, etc. Paid them a few hundred bucks to justify their elected position and got approved to have my detached building re-zoned to commercial. They required parking spots (not on the street) which is no problem where I live (rural). All surrounding neighbors were asked about the proposed zoning and I suspect me personally as well as having a "gun shop" so close. Pictures were taken (while I wasn't home) of my shop.

I really think its about revenue and making sure everyone is getting some. I'll admit it was a severe headache and very time consuming and way drawn out. I started the ball six months before getting the FFL in my hands. I don't even sell firearms. Folks around me can goto G&L,GGS, D&T, etc for that.