For the people who say, "Just give them what they want."

[gnmwilliams]

This is why I will never just give someone what they want, no matter how insignificant it may seem.

Man Killed, Woman Shot In Home Invasion - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT Jacksonville

"....even though there were signs that they complied."

[BigPoppa]

I agree 100%. We talked about this in every HCP course I ever taught. "Just give them what they want, and they won't hurt us".........maybe it used to be that way, but certainly not anymore. There's no honor among thieves anymore.

Give them what they want and they will still shoot you in the head. If you're going out, go out fighting.

[DaveTN]

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. Home Invaders are not thieves or burglars. They are going to take what you have by force. They seldom hit randomly, generally you have been targeted. They will force their way in fast and they are generally fully prepared for whatever you have. Unless you can lay your hands on a loaded weapon in seconds; you probably are at their mercy.

Very few people will have the time or the skill set to takeon multiple home invaders. It’s something everyone should think about and have a plan for.

By plan I mean something other than…. Go down fighting. Pulling a gun when an AR is pointed at your head is stupid.

“Give them what they want†usually applies to when you are looking down the barrel of a gun and you don’t have one.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. Home Invaders are not thieves or burglars. They are going to take what you have by force. They seldom hit randomly, generally you have been targeted. They will force their way in fast and they are generally fully prepared for whatever you have. Unless you can lay your hands on a loaded weapon in seconds; you probably are at their mercy.

Very few people will have the time or the skill set to takeon multiple home invaders. It’s something everyone should think about and have a plan for.

By plan I mean something other than…. Go down fighting. Pulling a gun when an AR is pointed at your head is stupid.

“Give them what they want†usually applies to when you are looking down the barrel of a gun and you don’t have one.

Dave, would you offer more specifics to plan for such eventuality? Am none too swooft on strategy.

Am guessing one would want to have a gun close at hand rather than sitting on the bed stand in the other room?

I've been in the habit of using the Kahr P9 carry gun as the home defense gun, and it is usually pretty close at hand. But that is only 8 rounds before a reload.

For home defense maybe it would be better to keep out the Beretta 92 loaded with 16 or 21 rounds, or the Glock 17 loaded with 19 rounds?

On the other hand, you mentioned that home invaders might come in with AR's and possibly even body armor-- Were you implying that it might be better to have a rifle in close reach rather than a pistol?

Pistols are loud enough. Lighting off a rifle in the house would really hurt. Admittedly that is pansy in a case of home defense, but when I occasionally light off guns outdoors and forget hearing protection, it hurts bad enough to be disorienting. Old ears, played too much rock'n'roll. Long before folks go deaf, old folks' ears become hyper sensitive to loud sound.

If a rifle iwould be desirable, the most appropriate currently in the safe would include a 9mm Beretta Storm rifle (maybe not good against body armor), MSAR .223 bullpup, and PLR-16 pistol.

If it would be desirable to have 30 rds of rifle ammo ready to go for home defense-- Maybe that is an application where the PLR-16 range toy would actually be useful? About the same as an SBR, except it is a LBP (long barrel pistol)?

[Guest bkelm18]

By plan I mean something other than…. Go down fighting. Pulling a gun when an AR is pointed at your head is stupid.

If I believe they're going to kill me anyway, you better bet your ass I'm going down fighting. It is impossible to have a plan for every eventuality. My plan is: If Thug A kicks-in Door B, I will grab Gun C, aim it at Thug A, and Pull Trigger D. If you think fighting for your life against the odds is stupid... well... that's stupid.

[Guest Kamikaze]

I keep a pistol grip Mossberg 500 loaded with PDX 1 self defense loads ready for whomever is unfortunate enough to break in my home. If 6 of those ain't enough I got 5 3" mag turkey loads on the folding stock.

[Guest Kamikaze]

As a backup to that I keep a 36 round magazine loaded with 9mm +p hollow points attached to my XD in the top drawer of the night stand.

[Guest pfries]

Well I don't think I would give them what they want but I will sure try to give them what they are asking for.

And yes we have a plan of action at my house, I sleep on the couch (still can’t sleep with the wife). My side arm is always with me wife has shotgun in the bedroom, bedroom has pass through door to babies room, younger son has his rifle with trigger lock (combination) upstairs with egress to porch roof and way down off both sides of house, babies room has egress windows on two sides of house and our room covers 1 additional side. If the kids upstairs cannot retreat to roof top they have a way into attic space. They have cell phones and a hard line is up in attic space. Meeting place is dependent on emergency. We drill 3-4 times per year and verbally walk through plan of action probably once a month +.

It is not perfect but it is something.

[Guest PapaB]

It is not perfect but it is something.

Sounds mighty well thought out to me.

[Patrick Henry]

sounds like any unwanted guest in Pfries home is gonna die of sudden and extream heavy lead poisoning

[tnhawk]

I hope my dogs cause them to pick a less protected home. If not, I plan to give them what the need, not what they demand.

[johnboy]

If someone kicks in my door they better have body armor on their head.

[Guest brandon_pitt]

Assuming they get passed my Rottweiler, who will meet them at the door, the perp will be met with plenty of lead( the kind body armor doesn't really help against). Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. In other words, I've done my homework. Bring it!!

[Guest Jon]

I had a guy break in my house about a year ago. When My Colt M4A1 with tac light raised up on him he froze. Then got the nerve to tell me when I got my flashlight out of his eyes he was gonna beat me to a pulp. Wife flicked the light on in the hall and he realized it was no flashlight lol. Didn't shoot him, but from the amount of shock he was under when the police arrived you thought I had.

[Warbird]

Dave, would you offer more specifics to plan for such eventuality? Am none too swooft on strategy.

Am guessing one would want to have a gun close at hand rather than sitting on the bed stand in the other room?

I've been in the habit of using the Kahr P9 carry gun as the home defense gun, and it is usually pretty close at hand. But that is only 8 rounds before a reload.

For home defense maybe it would be better to keep out the Beretta 92 loaded with 16 or 21 rounds, or the Glock 17 loaded with 19 rounds?

On the other hand, you mentioned that home invaders might come in with AR's and possibly even body armor-- Were you implying that it might be better to have a rifle in close reach rather than a pistol?

Pistols are loud enough. Lighting off a rifle in the house would really hurt. Admittedly that is pansy in a case of home defense, but when I occasionally light off guns outdoors and forget hearing protection, it hurts bad enough to be disorienting. Old ears, played too much rock'n'roll. Long before folks go deaf, old folks' ears become hyper sensitive to loud sound.

If a rifle iwould be desirable, the most appropriate currently in the safe would include a 9mm Beretta Storm rifle (maybe not good against body armor), MSAR .223 bullpup, and PLR-16 pistol.

If it would be desirable to have 30 rds of rifle ammo ready to go for home defense-- Maybe that is an application where the PLR-16 range toy would actually be useful? About the same as an SBR, except it is a LBP (long barrel pistol)?

LW I can tell one thing for nearly certain about a SD situation in your home. You would never hear that gun and you would never feel the recoil of the weapon. Adrenaline will narrow your field of vision, cut off most auditory responses and will also effect, in a negative way, your skills. I have experienced these situations several times in my life, but I will only illustrate the one easiest to relate. I have touched off 470 Nitro express and 500 caliber rifles hunting. I truly dreaded training with these rifles. Every shot was a mildly painful experience at best and quite painful in certain situations. However when used in the heat of the hunt I can never once recall hearing the rifle or feeling any recoil.

People who are serious about SD should train in a manner, as often as possible, as to simulate adrenaline inducing situations. A force on force class should be in every person's yearly or every other year regimen, followed by continued training to keep up those skills.

You will only react to the level to which you are competently proficient. You will not rise to the occasion. The gear you use should be the least of your worries. The biggest things to prepare for are your mindset, the tactics you have prepared yourself to use, the skills which you have become proficient with and practiced for and then you will be as prepared as you can. I recommend everyone read Jeff Cooper's Principles of Self Defense.

[Guest WyattEarp]

You should always have your weapon on your person when you are at home. Doesnt do a lot of good if someone breaks in and youre downstairs cooking breakfast or dinner and your gun is on your night stand, in your lockbox or otherwise out of reach. You never know when trouble will come calling but you best be prepared to deal with it when it does. Otherwise youre in a big mess.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

LW I can tell one thing for nearly certain about a SD situation in your home. You would never hear that gun and you would never feel the recoil of the weapon. Adrenaline will narrow your field of vision, cut off most auditory responses and will also effect, in a negative way, your skills. I have experienced these situations several times in my life, but I will only illustrate the one easiest to relate. I have touched off 470 Nitro express and 500 caliber rifles hunting. I truly dreaded training with these rifles. Every shot was a mildly painful experience at best and quite painful in certain situations. However when used in the heat of the hunt I can never once recall hearing the rifle or feeling any recoil.

People who are serious about SD should train in a manner, as often as possible, as to simulate adrenaline inducing situations. A force on force class should be in every person's yearly or every other year regimen, followed by continued training to keep up those skills.

You will only react to the level to which you are competently proficient. You will not rise to the occasion. The gear you use should be the least of your worries. The biggest things to prepare for are your mindset, the tactics you have prepared yourself to use, the skills which you have become proficient with and practiced for and then you will be as prepared as you can. I recommend everyone read Jeff Cooper's Principles of Self Defense.

Thanks for the good advice, Warbird!

[Guest nysos]

You should always have your weapon on your person when you are at home. Doesnt do a lot of good if someone breaks in and youre downstairs cooking breakfast or dinner and your gun is on your night stand, in your lockbox or otherwise out of reach. You never know when trouble will come calling but you best be prepared to deal with it when it does. Otherwise youre in a big mess.

I try to do this as well. My fiance makes fun of me sometimes, but even with my weapon holstered on my hip or on the table next to me I wouldn't know if I would have enough time to grab it/bring it to the ready before someone kicking in a door with gun in hand would have it pointed at me (our house is quite small). We do have a dog and at least when he is outside he barks at anyone that walks down the street or at any other animals that come close by. Hopefully, he would alert me to anything that goes bump in the night. As it stands right now, that hasn't been tested thankfully. Inside the house he is extremely quiet, almost never barks. So anytime I hear him bark when he is in the house I go peaking out windows.

One thing I have learned reading about many different scenarios and outcomes when it comes to home defense is that your gun should be your last line of defense, and not your only defense. Dogs are good, planning for intruders or other emergencies is good, alarm systems, motion lights, etc. are all great things. What it comes down to is if someone wants in your house bad enough, they can get in. It is easy enough to throw a brick through a window and climb through, or bust down a door - what you want to do is make it as hard as possible to be a deterrent or at least if they do anyways, where you have ample time to prepare before they make it in. That way when they do make it in, they are looking down the barrel of something compared to you scrambling in panic and unreadiness.

On another note, to kind of go back to the start of the thread. When it comes to breaking into the home, I am going to fight regardless. That is why there is a castle doctrine. If they break into my home willingly, especially if they know I am already home - I am going to instantly assume they aren't after my belongings but after mine and my loved ones lives.

Edited June 14, 2011 by nysos

[Guest bluemarlin]

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Edited June 14, 2011 by bluemarlin
Intended to include quote

[Guest bluemarlin]

I had a guy break in my house about a year ago. When My Colt M4A1 with tac light raised up on him he froze. Then got the nerve to tell me when I got my flashlight out of his eyes he was gonna beat me to a pulp. Wife flicked the light on in the hall and he realized it was no flashlight lol. Didn't shoot him, but from the amount of shock he was under when the police arrived you thought I had.

You're a better man than me, I would have shot his worthless ass!

[kwe45919]

We do have a dog and at least when he is outside he barks at anyone that walks down the street or at any other animals that come close by. Hopefully, he would alert me to anything that goes bump in the night. As it stands right now, that hasn't been tested thankfully. Inside the house he is extremely quiet, almost never barks. So anytime I hear him bark when he is in the house I go peaking out windows.

It is easy enough to throw a brick through a window.

Here's an issue you may have not noticed or thought about. So you hear the dog bark and you go peeking through the windows......well, as you said, someone can throw a brick through the window. Ever think about someone doing that while you're peeking through said window?? Now your hurt or worse, knocked out. Ever thinkg that someone could shoot you while you're looking out that window?? Maybe even use a crossbow to take you out while your peeking. Yes, it's highly unlikley but these days the bad guys will do anything and everything to get what they want......

Now, i have a dog as most of us do. A big dog. If the dog barks inside the house at night, the "plan" automatically goes into effect. It is absolute defense mode....not go see what made the noise mode. I would rather lie in wait for someone to break in while calling 911 than run to see what's going on. I've got the inside covered and the police should have the outside covered when they arrive.

On a different note, when I wake up, First thing I do is grab my gun and holster go into bathroom for shower time. When I dress, the gun goes on and DOES NOT come off for any reason until I go to bed. No more lounging around the house in PJ's chillaxin and watching TV. This can help address the issues of not being able to get to a gun in a bust-in situation. My holster is an IWB not OWB....I feel this is important because IF you get "caught" or surrounded, it is less likley for the bad guys to see your gun...which may give you some advantage....

Just my .02....

[china coaster]

People speak of their door being kicked in.News reports say the door was kicked in. So try to have a door that can't be kicked in. Now I realize if you rent or are in hock to your eye balls on your dwelling having a door that can't be kicked in may not be practical. But if you own and have little debt you could. The doors of my house can't be kicked in. There are two doors at each entrance. the outside one is heavy wood and saftey glass that opens out. The front has a 3/8" 4" long slide bar that is hard to work on the outer door and two of the same on the solid wood inner door. These doors can only be opened from the inside. The back entrance has a heavy wood and safety glass outer door with a keyed dead bolt and a slide bar opening out, and the inner one is a heavy wood with glass incert top backed by heavy hardware cloth. It has two keyed dead bolts top and bottom so the door can,t be worked around the center bolt. Another thing to use is a piece of 4 inch lumber with a yoke sawed in one end that can go under the door knob then is kicked to apprx a 45 deg angle. It's the same thing as putting a straight chair under the door knob but much better. It would take quite a while to break in to my house. Took me 15 minutes once when the dead bold on the back outter door went bad, and I have a shop full of tools. Most low lifes have a jack handle at best.