380 Pocket Pistol ammo recommendations?

[Caster]

I load the wife's little Taurus with CorBon DPX. It does very well in testing. Yeah it was pricey, but if it works, who cares? In my wife's gun, I wouldn't care if they were $5 per shot as long as they work when she needs them.

[Guest bluemarlin]

I'm using PDX1 in my LCP also. They have always fed just fine, have stronger felt recoil, and are accurate. I tried hydrashocks when I first bought my gun about a year ago and wasn't as accurate with it as I am with the PDX1. Just my experience.

[Jonnin]

Unexpanded hollow points make holes...expensive holes...but holes just the same and holes are holes and they freakin' hurt.

I'm no expert on bullet-ology, but the concept behind Corbon Pow'RBall and Hornady Critical Defense makes sense to me. Unless I'm off the mark, which is very possible, they should be good for year-round carry, right? It seems like they wouldn't over-penetrate or regularly fail to expand. Someone please correct/inform me, if I've misunderstood.

I don't think you CAN over-penetrate with a 380. The issue is that the weak round barely has enough penetration in ball ammo. Do anything else, like JHP, and the greater diameter of the expanded bullet, jagged edges, and so on create more friction, require more material to be pushed aside, etc and the low energy and velocity of the round make these types of ammo less likely to get good penetration. In the hottest of hot loads a JHP is still risky due to loss of penetration, it may or may not do the job, depending on the mass of the individual it is used upon, their clothing (thick coat? t-shirt?) and so forth.

Time and time again you will see it recommended to either just use non-expanding ammo or to alternate it with JHP in 380s.

I am not knocking the caliber nor trying to start any caliber nonsense (wouldnt make sense, I carry a 380 often). Its just basic physics, the 380 slug has a ton less momentum/energy than a 9mm, and any penetration test will show it --- making the use of ammo that further decreases penetration a questionable decision. If you want to use JHP, google around or do some testing to see what YOU think about this issue.

Other users have tested the buffalo bore ammo and concluded that it matches the provided velocity and energy levels. It apparently lives up to the stated claims, and as others said, it certainly feels stout when you shoot it. I love the critical defense ammo design, just not in 380, its fine in 9mm and other calibers that can punch an expanded slug on thru. If they beefed up the 380 powder charge, I would strongly consider it.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Jonnin

[Erik88]

I don't think you CAN over-penetrate with a 380. The issue is that the weak round barely has enough penetration in ball ammo. Do anything else, like JHP, and the greater diameter of the expanded bullet, jagged edges, and so on create more friction, require more material to be pushed aside, etc and the low energy and velocity of the round make these types of ammo less likely to get good penetration. In the hottest of hot loads a JHP is still risky due to loss of penetration, it may or may not do the job, depending on the mass of the individual it is used upon, their clothing (thick coat? t-shirt?) and so forth.

Time and time again you will see it recommended to either just use non-expanding ammo or to alternate it with JHP in 380s.

I am not knocking the caliber nor trying to start any caliber nonsense (wouldnt make sense, I carry a 380 often). Its just basic physics, the 380 slug has a ton less momentum/energy than a 9mm, and any penetration test will show it --- making the use of ammo that further decreases penetration a questionable decision.

well said. I say just stick to the FMJ in .380 because of the old saying "we WANT expansion, but we NEED penetration".

[daddyo]

I am not knocking the caliber nor trying to start any caliber nonsense (wouldnt make sense, I carry a 380 often). Its just basic physics, the 380 slug has a ton less momentum/energy than a 9mm, and any penetration test will show it --- making the use of ammo that further decreases penetration a questionable decision. If you want to use JHP, google around or do some testing to see what YOU think about this issue.

I agree with this, based on my own reading and research. Question is, if one knows that .380 has been proven inferior to the 9mm as a defensive load, why would he want to trust his life to it? I have really tried to understand this, and for the life of me, I'm just unable to.

[Erik88]

I agree with this, based on my own reading and research. Question is, if one knows that .380 has been proven inferior to the 9mm as a defensive load, why would he want to trust his life to it? I have really tried to understand this, and for the life of me, I'm just unable to.

The same could be said for any other caliber. 9mm>.380 .45>9mm .44mag> .45acp. Unless we are all carrying around .50 AE Desert Eagles then I suppose we all have inferior handguns.

.380 has probably killed as many people around the world as any other caliber and it seems to work just fine.

[Caster]

This isn't going to dissolve into one of stopping power threads again is it?

[daddyo]

The same could be said for any other caliber. 9mm>.380 .45>9mm .44mag> .45acp. Unless we are all carrying around .50 AE Desert Eagles then I suppose we all have inferior handguns.

.380 has probably killed as many people around the world as any other caliber and it seems to work just fine.

I'm not willing to give the attacker time fight back as he bleeds out. I am concerned about removing his will to fight, not killing him.

Not a hard concept.

Edited June 14, 2011 by DaddyO

[Guest mds3d]

In an attempt to return to the subject...

I use Winchester PDX1 or the Hornaday ammo in my PK380. They are fairly easy for me to keep around, I was able to find enough to test both. Never had a misfeed with either. Put about 100 rounds of each into testing, without a single failure to expand.

[Jonnin]

I'm not willing to give the attacker time fight back as he bleeds out. I am concerned about removing his will to fight, not killing him.

Not a hard concept.

But an interesting concept. The will to fight... how do you measure that, and what does it take to remove it -- the implication is that a 9mm or whatever can remove it but a 380 cannot?! I think that discussion will lead to that funny picture that for some reason does not have .22 shorts or .25s or 44 mags yet "proves" that all calibers are the same =) Probably best saved for another thread, as *that* discussion never ends and never really goes anywhere either.I carry a 380 because it meets all my needs... invisible to carry, is comfortable when sitting down all day, I can work the SAO trigger (there are about zero good, *small* SAO 9s or 10s or 40s) easily, and so forth. It fits my needs well, and if a bit underpowered, its easy enough to empty the whole mag in short order without missing as the recoil doesnt pull you off target even if fired one handed. Show me a 9mm SAO in the LC9 sized frame and I will upgrade, but for now, the 380 is my best option on a lot of days.

[Fourtyfive]

Critical Defense for carry, FMJ for the range.

[daddyo]

But an interesting concept. The will to fight... how do you measure that, and what does it take to remove it -- the implication is that a 9mm or whatever can remove it but a 380 cannot?! I think that discussion will lead to that funny picture that for some reason does not have .22 shorts or .25s or 44 mags yet "proves" that all calibers are the same =) Probably best saved for another thread, as *that* discussion never ends and never really goes anywhere either.I carry a 380 because it meets all my needs... invisible to carry, is comfortable when sitting down all day, I can work the SAO trigger (there are about zero good, *small* SAO 9s or 10s or 40s) easily, and so forth. It fits my needs well, and if a bit underpowered, its easy enough to empty the whole mag in short order without missing as the recoil doesnt pull you off target even if fired one handed. Show me a 9mm SAO in the LC9 sized frame and I will upgrade, but for now, the 380 is my best option on a lot of days.

Thanks for your thoughtful and respectful reply, Jonnin.

[Guest brandon_pitt]

hornady critical defense

Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Handgun :: Choose by Caliber :: 380 Auto :: 380 Auto 90 gr Critical Defense®

I am a big fan of Hornady as well.

[JAB]

I'm not willing to give the attacker time fight back as he bleeds out. I am concerned about removing his will to fight, not killing him.

Not a hard concept.

The following is the logic that influences my decision.

It is entirely possible that, at some point, I might make someone angry enough that their desire to kill me overrides their desire for self-preservation. Such an individual might just be willing to take a shot from a .380 and then risk getting shot again (and again) to kill me, regardless of the risk to himself. If such a time comes and such an individual is that determined, I honestly doubt that it will make any real difference whether I am carrying a .380, a .38 or a 9mm. Heck, even if I happen to choose to carry a .357 that day it may well make little difference.

The above response is not meant to be in any way facetious - I am completely serious. I truly believe that an attacker who is willing and able to continue to attack after being shot with any handgun in .32acp or above would be likely to continue to attack after being shot with any handgun in .45acp or below. As you put it so very well, I am concerned with removing his will to fight and if simply being shot, period (even with a .380) won't do that, I don't believe than a 9mm, .40 or .45 will, either.

That said, I am sometimes concerned about the ability of .380 JHP to penetrate very heavy, winter clothing. Luckily in the winter - when an attacker is more likely to be wearing heavy clothing - it is much easier to conceal/carry a larger (and larger caliber) firearm and in the summer, when the P3AT or 642 in a pocket or small belt holster fit best into my style of dress, an attacker is most likely going to be wearing light clothing that won't create a penetration issue. I can't carry at work so if it is warm weather and I am carrying, I will likely be wearing just a t-shirt and shorts. I am very warm natured (my normal, resting body temperature is often 99.9 degrees) and often can't stand even a very light cover garment - meaning that, in hot weather (for me) heat exhaustion or even heat stroke are much more likely threats than an assailant who will withstand being shot with a .380 (or .38 +P) to keep attacking me. That is why the P3AT and the 642 will see a lot more 'primary carry' time in the summer than in the winter.

All of this ties into the OP's question in that I do think it is very important to make a good, informed decision when choosing SD ammo in .380 - especially when considering JHP ammo - because it isn't as powerful. While any old (modern) JHP, even the 'budget line' stuff might be 'fine' in 9mm or larger, I believe that .380 performance can greatly differ from one (even premium, JHP) kind of ammo to the next. I also firmly believe that - because of the 'pocket .380' craze started by the P3AT and ramped up by the LCP and other, small pistols - JHP in .380 has seen great advancement in the last, few years. IOW, this ain't your father's .380 and various ammo tests (both professional and home-grown) have shown that there is some modern, well-designed .380 JHP ammo that is perfectly capable of giving both penetration and expansion.

Edited June 14, 2011 by JAB

[edellson]

IMO in the summer one should carry hollow points. You should get enough penetration with little clothes to go through, while in the winter with people wearing heavy jackets a FMJ will still be able to penetrate when the hollow point will not.

[SonnyCrockett]

102g sabre

‪380 ACP - Remington Golden Saber - Jug Test‬‏ - YouTube