Giving Guns As Gifts

[MrBrian]

If I were wanting to buy a family member, or a friend of the family, a pistol for a gift... what would I need to do. Also, I've heard people around say they've traded guns for other guns. Can you trade guns without going thru a FFL dealer? Just wondering what the laws are dealing with these issues.

[MarkInNashville]

My option is that the feel of a gun is something that is unique to each person. Take me for example: There are a ton of folks that will tell you that a Glock feels like an original appendage to their body. Personally I have never, (EVER) felt one that doesn't feel like something vile in my hand. Do not misunderstand me, I know they are excellent weapons, I just dont care for them. My point is that each person has a different option and you really should let that person choose their own weapon. If that really is what you want to give how about something like a gift certificate to a gun store?

As to your other question, I am not an expert but it is my understanding that a person can sell, trade or buy any regular gun to anyone else Now "regular" here means anything not regulated by the Federal Firearms Act shown here: National Firearms Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia But as I said I am NOT an expert!

Edited June 7, 2011 by MarkInNashville

[Guest Jasen]

each person has a different option and you really should let that person choose their own weapon. If that really is what you want to give how about something like a gift certificate to a gun store?

well put

[Guest Aces&8s]

I recently bought a pistol for my father as a birthday present, and the guys at the gun shop worked it out with me so that I paid for the gun, then took my dad by the gun shop and had him "pay" the ten dollars for the background check in his name. Seemed like the best way to me at the time.

[Oh Shoot]

The legal part is simple:

- You can loan, give or sell a handgun to anyone in this state, as long as he is 18 and not (knowingly, to you) forbidden by law to posses it.

- You can even loan or give a handgun to a minor "for the purposes of hunting, trapping, fishing, camping, sport shooting or any other lawful sporting activity".

I do agree that a gun a very personal item, though, both on practical and aesthetic level, and certainly if possible any recipient should have input in the decision, though this can be time consuming, especially if it ideally includes some actual shooting of prospective choices.

- OS

Edited June 7, 2011 by OhShoot

[Guest bkelm18]

Nevermind. Too early to think.

Edited June 7, 2011 by bkelm18

[True Grit]

I recently bought a pistol for my father as a birthday present, and the guys at the gun shop worked it out with me so that I paid for the gun, then took my dad by the gun shop and had him "pay" the ten dollars for the background check in his name..

I was told this was illegal. I wanted to do the same thing at my gun shop for my son and was told the person paying for the firearm had to do the background check then he can gift the gun to anyone who is legally able to purchace a firearm in this state.

[Guest bkelm18]

I wanted to do the same thing at my gun shop for my son and was told the person paying for the firearm had to do the background check then he can gift the gun to anyone who is legally able to purchace a firearm in this state.

As long as the purchaser is the one filling out the 4473 and doing the background check, that is ok.

Edited June 7, 2011 by bkelm18

[Guest friesepferd]

It doesn't matter if you are doing a "straw purchase", as long as the person you are buying it for can legally own it correct?

In any case, I would also concur that you let the person pick out the gun. If they dont know what they want, then work with them to decide what would be best for them.

Another very very important question - do they live in TN out outside of TN?

[Guest bkelm18]

Edit: Nevermind. I don't want to muddle everything with straw purchase talk.

Edited June 7, 2011 by bkelm18

[DWARREN123]

You can gift a firearm or trade firearms without any FFL involvement in Tennessee. You should do as much as possible to assure the person receiving the firearm is legally able to posess firearms.

As for selling/trading I would use a bill of sale to protect all involved, not mandated by law.

[Guest nysos]

Are you the actual buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you.

A straw purchase is a straw purchase. Buying a gun from an FFL for someone else is illegal in the fed's eyes. That's the very first question on the 4473:

I'm not a lawyer but this is my take on it. If you are buying a firearm for someone as a gift, that's ok. As in, they have no idea you are buying it for them, but if they are asking you to buy it for them - it then becomes a straw purchase.

Where is the line drawn? Do you have to buy a gun for yourself, then decide it is not the gun for you and give it to a family member as a gift? How long do you have to have it to decide that?

No law is clear, I wouldn't see how it is a straw purchase if you are buying a gun for someone as a gift and you know they can legally (and already legally own/purchase handguns), but they have not requested you to do so.

[Guest bkelm18]

I'm not a lawyer but this is my take on it. If you are buying a firearm for someone as a gift, that's ok. As in, they have no idea you are buying it for them, but if they are asking you to buy it for them - it then becomes a straw purchase.

Where is the line drawn? Do you have to buy a gun for yourself, then decide it is not the gun for you and give it to a family member as a gift? How long do you have to have it to decide that?

No law is clear, I wouldn't see how it is a straw purchase if you are buying a gun for someone as a gift and you know they can legally (and already legally own/purchase handguns), but they have not requested you to do so.

You're probably right. Laws are a wee bit gray.

[Guest nicemac]

If I were wanting to buy a family member, or a friend of the family, a pistol for a gift... what would I need to do. Also, I've heard people around say they've traded guns for other guns. Can you trade guns without going thru a FFL dealer? Just wondering what the laws are dealing with these issues.

I had this same question several years ago. I called the ATF. I was told that as long as the person was otherwise able to go buy a gun for themselves, I could gift them one. And they thanked me for calling to check first.

[monkeylizard]

I'm not a lawyer but this is my take on it. If you are buying a firearm for someone as a gift, that's ok. As in, they have no idea you are buying it for them, but if they are asking you to buy it for them - it then becomes a straw purchase.

Not quite. It's fine for the giftee to tell you what they want. It's not fine for them to give you the money to buy it either before or after the purchase. THAT'S a straw purchase. I can tell my brother that I want to get him a firearm for his birthday and ask him what he wants. That's fine. It's not a straw purchase. I am the purchaser. I will fill out the ATF form and I will pass the background check*. Then I will give it as a gift with no recompense from him of any kind. It's a gift.

When I give it to my brother, there is no paperwork to fill out and no FFL to go through UNLESS he is a resident of another state. Then and only then does it have to pass through an FFL and it would be one in the recipient's home state.

*Assuming I'm purchasing from a dealer. I can purchase the gift from an individual and not do that, just like any other private sale.

[Guest Aces&8s]

I was told this was illegal. I wanted to do the same thing at my gun shop for my son and was told the person paying for the firearm had to do the background check then he can gift the gun to anyone who is legally able to purchace a firearm in this state.

See, I was told that it was better for the person who was actually taking possession of the firearm to have the background check. In my case, it was no different from me just handing my dad a few hundred dollars in the gun shop and having him buy the gun himself, since the transaction was not completed until he underwent the background check. If the shop offered gift certificates, I could have gone that route, but it was not an option at the time.

What we need is more federal legislation to clear up these issues...

[robbiev]

See, I was told that it was better for the person who was actually taking possession of the firearm to have the background check.

"Better" is subjective. Since it is perfectly legal to purchase a gun as a legitimate gift, it is not better legally. Some people want the peace of mind that the person who owns the gun passed a background check, because they have the impression that doing that lets them off the hook legally, or, many people are under the impression that there MUST be a paper trail proving they gave the gun to the other person, so they think it's better to do it that way.

SIDE NOTE: "Straw purchase" is generally defined as purchasing an item for a person who does qualify to purchase the item himself. It has nothing to do, strictly speaking, with who pays for the item.

Edited June 7, 2011 by robbiev

[True Grit]

See, I was told that it was better for the person who was actually taking possession of the firearm to have the background check. In my case, it was no different from me just handing my dad a few hundred dollars in the gun shop and having him buy the gun himself, since the transaction was not completed until he underwent the background check. If the shop offered gift certificates, I could have gone that route, but it was not an option at the time.

That is what to do. Hand your father the cash and he buys the gun, he passes the backgroound check and he takes possession. That prevents the straw purchase. It know its dumb but that keeps everyone happy.

What we need is more federal legislation to clear up these issues...

Exactly. Too many unnecessary laws makes things confusing.

[monkeylizard]

SIDE NOTE: "Straw purchase" is generally defined as purchasing an item for a person who does qualify to purchase the item himself. It has nothing to do, strictly speaking, with who pays for the item.

That's the normal definition, but not for firearms. Federal firearms laws (and the ATF) make no distinction of eligibility of the ultimate recipient. A straw purchase to the ATF is simply that the actual buyer is being hidden by an intermediary. Notice that I said buyer, not owner. In a gift transaction, a 3rd party is the end owner, but is NEVER a buyer. If the "gift" recipient gives the buyer the money for the item, then it is no longer a gift, it is a straw purchase regardless of the final owner's legal ability to own a firearm or not.

[Guest Konig]

Not quite. It's fine for the giftee to tell you what they want. It's not fine for them to give you the money to buy it either before or after the purchase. THAT'S a straw purchase. I can tell my brother that I want to get him a firearm for his birthday and ask him what he wants. That's fine. It's not a straw purchase. I am the purchaser. I will fill out the ATF form and I will pass the background check*. Then I will give it as a gift with no recompense from him of any kind. It's a gift.

When I give it to my brother, there is no paperwork to fill out and no FFL to go through UNLESS he is a resident of another state. Then and only then does it have to pass through an FFL and it would be one in the recipient's home state.

*Assuming I'm purchasing from a dealer. I can purchase the gift from an individual and not do that, just like any other private sale.

Not true! I gave a gun to my Brother who lives out of State and he wanted to be sure it was Legal, so he checked with Dealer's in town and was told, the Gun would have to be shipped from here to a Dealer in his State by a FFL and then be registered to him!

He checked with Scottie on Brainerd Rd (who even deals FA Guns and was told, he would not need to do anything!)

My Brother however did have Scottie transfer ownership from me to my Brother for $45. even though Scottie told him he was wasting $45! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[monkeylizard]

I should have specified that handguns have to pass through an FFL in the recipient's home state. Long guns do not. All of this of course assumes that we're not talking about items controlled under the NFA (full auto, SBR, suppressors, etc). Then it's a whole different animal.

From ATF Publication 5300.4

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed

person acquire a firearm

under the GCA?

A person may only acquire a firearm

within the person’s own State,

except that he or she may purchase

or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun,

in person, at a licensee's premises

in any State, provided the sale

complies with State laws applicable in

177

the State of sale and the State where

the purchaser resides. A person may

borrow or rent a firearm in any State

for temporary use for lawful sporting

purposes.

[18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and (5), 922((3), 27

CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B3) May an unlicensed person

obtain a firearm from an out-of-

State source if the person arranges

to obtain the firearm through a

licensed dealer in the purchaser’s

own State?

A person not licensed under the

GCA and not prohibited from acquiring

firearms may purchase a firearm

from an out-of-State source and obtain

the firearm if an arrangement is

made with a licensed dealer in the

purchaser's State of residence for the

purchaser to obtain the firearm from

the dealer.

[18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and 922((3)]

Edited June 7, 2011 by monkeylizard

[Oh Shoot]

I should have specified that handguns have to pass through an FFL in the recipient's home state. Long guns do not.

To be clear, a FFL holder may sell a long gun to an out of state resident in the FFL holder's state, though he is not compelled to (and some won't).

However, for individual to individual interstate sales, there is no difference between hand gun and long gun. They must both have a 4473 done in the recipient's state.

- OS

[peejman]

Why not avoid the (perceived) complication and just get him/her a gift certificate? The universal gift card with a few brochures thrown in should get the point across.

[Hozzie]

The simple answer to the question is: (assuming the person you want to gift it to is legal to own one and it is a true gift)

1) you purchase the gun (pay for) and have the background check in your name.

2) if the person lives in state - give them the gun and your done.

3) if the person lives out of state - send the gun to an FFL in their state and they must get a background check there.. You do not have to ship from an FFL in your state legally. There are some FFL's that say they will only receive guns from another FFL. I say find another receiving FFL if that is the case (just personal opinion there).

That's it!

Edited June 7, 2011 by Hozzie

[monkeylizard]

However, for individual to individual interstate sales, there is no difference between hand gun and long gun. They must both have a 4473 done in the recipient's state.

- OS

Thanks. I didn't know that.

+1 to what Hozzie said. Nice summary.