HCP if living with a convicted felon?

[Guest bulletproof]

This is something I haven't seen anyone talk about and I don't remember seeing anything about it on the forms I've filled out. We have a situation in the neighborhood where someone has made several threats involving a gun. Like sitting on his front porch and shooting speeders that go by. What is surprising about this is that his wife is a convicted felon and is not supposed to be near a gun. I also suspect he has a HCP. I was wondering if there is a legal way someone can have a HCP but live with a felon in the same house or is it the felon's fault for allowing a gun in the house? I know this is poorly worded but hopefully you see my drift?

[molonlabetn]

G. Gordon Liddy's wife owns firearms legally, and keeps them in their house. Possession is one thing, being in the same room or building with a firearm possessed by another person is different. It would be a sticky situation, still though.

[Guest tjbert47]

As long as the convicted felon doesn't have acess to the guns threr is no problem.

Tom in TN

[Guest bulletproof]

Yeah, I suppose the guy could claim he never brings the gun in the house or maybe even the property.

[BryanP]

More likely he would claim that they stay locked up or on his person and she doesn't have the key.

[saintsfanbrian]

One does not preclude the other. There is not a provision in the application for an HCP or in the ATF Form 4473 for "are you living with some one who has been convicted of a felony."

Could the felon be charged if the police showed up for some reason and found her IN POSSESSION of the firearm? You bet your bippy but lets face it, how likely is that to happen?

I don't care what the person was charged with or convicted of, they have no bearing on my being able to protect myself or them should some idiot decide they wanted in my house for any reason with out my asking them in.

[Guest canynracer]

Anonymous call to the police about the shooting speeder threats...with a brief mention as you hang up about "i thought felons couldnt be around guns"...when the cops get there, you will have your answer .

It drives me crazy when people make stupid threats about shooting people, it gives us law abiding citizens a bad name....

[Guest Phantom6]

Anonymous call to the police about the shooting speeder threats...with a brief mention as you hang up about "i thought felons couldnt be around guns"...when the cops get there, you will have your answer .

It drives me crazy when people make stupid threats about shooting people, it gives us law abiding citizens a bad name....

No law against convicted fellons being around guns. They can't own 'em. They can't handle 'em. They can't use 'em. As far as the spouse is concerned, saintsfanbrian is correct. There is no question on either the application for an HCP or the Form 4473 that asks anything close to "are you living with some one who has been convicted of a felony."

I also get ticked when idiots make stupid threats regarding shooting someone. Same goes for "whuppin' your ass".

[fury2neon]

G. Gordon Liddy's wife owns firearms legally, and keeps them in their house. Possession is one thing, being in the same room or building with a firearm possessed by another person is different. It would be a sticky situation, still though.

From what I understand Mrs. Liddy has one of the best gun collections in the nation...

[Guest bulletproof]

OK..I finally got some answers back from some legal type friends.

The guy does have a HCP and it is valid. Because his wife lives in the same house

she is considered to be technically in possession of any firearm in that house and

because she is a felon it is illegal. A person is not supposed to have a HCP if they

live under the same roof as a felon. One of my friends said that this was something

he suspected would be challenged and overturned sometime in the future but for

now it is illegal. That question was never on any forms I filled out for a gun purchase

or for my HCP.

[Fallguy]

OK..I finally got some answers back from some legal type friends.

The guy does have a HCP and it is valid. Because his wife lives in the same house

she is considered to be technically in possession of any firearm in that house and

because she is a felon it is illegal. A person is not supposed to have a HCP if they

live under the same roof as a felon. One of my friends said that this was something

he suspected would be challenged and overturned sometime in the future but for

now it is illegal. That question was never on any forms I filled out for a gun purchase

or for my HCP.

With all due respect to your friend, unless he is a lawyer, I would stil take what he said with a grain of salt. AFAIK there is only one way to check the status of a HCP and that is not supposed to be done for curiosity sake.

I also don't see why a person could not have a HCP while living with a convicted felon. Simply having a HCP don't mean you even own a gun. Maybe you got one to already have it incase you decided to carry. Also it doesn't mean you have a firearm at home if you do own one. I think the question is not there, because it doesn't matter.

[Guest Len]

TN law differentiates between actual possession and material possession (may not be the right term, its been a while.) Either is enough to convict.

You can be in posession of a gun if it is in your hands, that's pretty much 100% sure. But you can also be in "possession" if it is in the house and easily accessible by you. There is case law on this and I served on a jury where just this exact question was critical. Guy was a felon, was on the porch of a house he may or may not have been living in, and a shotgun was lying on top of the sofa in the living room. Ammo was on a shelf in a cabinet above the fridge in the kitchen. He was charged with possession of a firearm and ammo as a convicted felon. H was never seen actually physically holding the gun. He walked (on those charges.) However, if the prosecution could have proved he actually lived in, resided in, the house, he could have been guilty of possession.

Now, a HCP holder can live with a felon. There is no law against that from what I know. (I am NOT a lawyer.) A HCP holder does not even necessarily have to own a gun to have a permit. If the permit-holder can be proven to be "in possession" (physically on his person or in his material control -ie locked in a safe only he knows the combo to) of the gun at all times, I don't see how a felon can be arrested for living in that house.

Funny thing about juries. We on the jury all "knew" the guy was guilty. The circumstantial evidence was convincing, but the prosecution did not prove possession beyond a reasonable doubt. The defense even admitted the defendant was on the porch and ran when the cops came. The prosecution could not prove the guy lived in the house or that he knew the gun was there. So he was found "not guilty," which is NOT the same as "innocent."

OK..I finally got some answers back from some legal type friends.

The guy does have a HCP and it is valid. Because his wife lives in the same house

she is considered to be technically in possession of any firearm in that house and

because she is a felon it is illegal. A person is not supposed to have a HCP if they

live under the same roof as a felon. One of my friends said that this was something

he suspected would be challenged and overturned sometime in the future but for

now it is illegal. That question was never on any forms I filled out for a gun purchase

or for my HCP.

Edited February 29, 2008 by Len
typo

[Guest bulletproof]

The information I got was from law enforcement, an attorney and one other source I can't say yet. I think the whole thing is that it can be proved that where they live is their principal residence. Just because the gun (if there is one) is in the house puts her in possession of it whether or not it is locked up or not. Even if there isn't a gun the State choose to revoke the HCP. There is a lot of other things going on and this is just a small part of it. I'll post some links about it as soon as things calm down. It will be interesting to see how it goes.

[molonlabetn]

Veeeery interesting, yes... please keep us updated!

[Guest TargetShooter84]

Thats really interesting...I never really thought of that way. Guess I'll have to start doing background checks on a girl that I am going to get seriously involved with for the sake of my HCP.

[strickj]

Thats really interesting...I never really thought of that way. Guess I'll have to start doing background checks on a girl that I am going to get seriously involved with for the sake of my HCP.

Save yoyr 29.00 bucks and just dont get "seriously involved"

Its a lot cheaper that way

[Guest Grout]

1,300 members on this board and not a single damn lawyer?

[VERO1]

1,300 members on this board and not a single damn lawyer?

Yep, thats why it's still such a great place to visit!

[K191145]

Thats really interesting...I never really thought of that way. Guess I'll have to start doing background checks on a girl that I am going to get seriously involved with for the sake of my HCP.

Here's you a link where you can check that.

https://www.tennesseeanytime.org/foil/foil_index.jsp

[Guest Boomhower]

This is definitely a loop hole in the system for the law dogs. If this man is worthy of an HCP, I think a good lawyer would be in order and this would have high probability of being overturned.

[DaveTN]

I’m no lawyer, but I would guess that convicting someone (not arresting them, but convicting them) of being a felon in possession of a firearm would require physical control.

<O:p</O:p

A family has a kid that has been convicted of a felony and they have to get rid of all firearms and leave the family unprotected? I think not.

<O:p</O:p

In reality this will depend on why the cops are there or were called. If a felon is arrested in a home where firearms are present they may well be charged with the additional charge.

<O:p</O:p

The bad thing about all these laws is that while we have access to the written statute; we (or at least I don’t) don’t have access to the case law. Many of theses questions are answered by case law.

<O:p</O:p

Didn’t Tennessee just pass some new legislation about felons and firearms?

<O:p</O:p

[strickj]

I think there is something in a house somewhere down the line.Dont recall one being passed recent,but dont hold me to that,I could have been naping when it passed

[Guest TargetShooter84]

Save yoyr 29.00 bucks and just dont get "seriously involved"

Its a lot cheaper that way

Amen to that!

[mdmoseley]

I have a friend of mine from high school that got into some trouble and was convicted. He was staying with his parents while he was still on probation. His dad owned a handgun and he claimed to not know the gun was there. He was charged with felony possession and went back to jail.

[strickj]

I bet it all boils down to the credit of the fellons word and how bad the LEO/PO hates him.I do know however,if the fellon is in a car with a gun that he can be charged with possession even if its not on his person