Pros/Cons for SA, DAO, DA/SA, SA/DA, DAK, "Safe Action" of Glocks

[chemprof]

I was wondering what y'all thought (preferred) about each of the options listed in the post title. I own something in most of 'em, but not all. NOT making this a question about firearm brand at all.

What pros/cons are there for you with each configuration, and perhaps (surely?) it depends on what the firearm's task will be. Could we limit this to just pistols for now and leave the wheels for later?

1. In general what do you think about the options (SA, DAO, DA/SA, SA/DA, DAK, "Safe Action")?

2. Does the option you like depend on whether it's for (& how...)

(a) target/plinking

( CCW

© competition shooting

(d) hunting

(e) Zombie hunting

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts and experiences!

[Steelharp]

I don't like DA/SA myself, because I prefer the pull to be consistent. I'm not a fan of SA, totally, because of the thumb safety required. Not a fan of DA, DAO because I'm not fond of a long, hard pull, either. I have found the Glock trigger to meet my personal requirements, for any application.

[Jonnin]

I was wondering what y'all thought (preferred) about each of the options listed in the post title. I own something in most of 'em, but not all. NOT making this a question about firearm brand at all.

What pros/cons are there for you with each configuration, and perhaps (surely?) it depends on what the firearm's task will be. Could we limit this to just pistols for now and leave the wheels for later?

1. In general what do you think about the options (SA, DAO, DA/SA, SA/DA, DAK, "Safe Action")?

2. Does the option you like depend on whether it's for (& how...)

(a) target/plinking

( CCW

© competition shooting

(d) hunting

(e) Zombie hunting

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts and experiences!

Totally depends on what the gun is for. Everything that follows is just my personal preferences, and nothing more.

1) SA: I love these esp for target shooting, though my pocket 380 is also a SA (it was that or DAO, nothing much in between in the tiny frames). I would be happy to carry one, but almost no SA guns that fit my other needs exist (most SA are massive or have oddball features that annoy me like grip safety, huge pointy hammer or beavertails, etc). Show me a good, small SA that isnt a 1911 rehash and I am all over it (the 238 is 1911ish but lacks beavertail, grip safety, bushing, and so forth).

DAO: I like the para light double action. My hands are in bad shape from years of computer work, and I simply cannot fire most DAO guns without physical pain, and since I cannot practice with the guns beyond a few shots, I cannot use them. No good for target guns, really only good for a carry piece, so these are just a no-go for me.

DA: Most of my guns are DA. I like them well enough, but why on earth are the triggers so darn sorry? What I want is a DA revolver trigger in a semi-auto. This is not easy to find, but its what I want. The slop in most DA guns is just horrible, even the ones I like and own are poorish. I love the concept: the first pull is your safety, its long and difficult, follow up shots just take a light touch of the trigger. But nothing out there really meets this concept.

Not sure what a DAK is. I probably know what it is but not by this name (?).

Safe action: I hate them: all the disadvantages of a SA, with none of the advantages. About the only thing positive about them is no need for a safety... which is also true of a DA gun and a DAO gun. Thats right... the long DA pull is as good a safety as a glock's .. I am willing to say that and willing to say leave the safety on "red" for a DA carry gun. A lot of DAO's do not have a safety, which defends this point pretty well.

---------

Uses.

a) target: single action is the only thing that makes sense to me here unless you are shooting a target with your carry gun for training/practice. True target shooting is hard enough without a junk trigger pulling you off target.

CCW: I will not advocate any type here. YOU carry what YOU like. I carry a SA pocket pistol and a DA subcompact, because those are the 2 guns I like for the job.

c)Competition: What competition? See A for bullseye/long range high accuracy event, but IDPA or other non-accuracy events can revert to the answer for .

d) Personal preference... but I would not use anything except a SA (anything, includes bolt action, most semi-rifles, etc) or DA revolver.

e) SA semi-automatic rifle or rifle-caliber pistol. Mostly because I cannot think of any weapon I would have that isnt SA for this job, mostly "fake assault" weapon style stuff. Show me a capable DA option and I would not turn it down.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I like all of em assuming the trigger is good.

The ones I like least are tiny pocket guns with 10+ pound DA-only triggers. Such a trigger would be bad enough, but paired with the typical two-finger grip and nearly nonexistent sights, I consider it a lucky shot just to hit the berm behind the target.

I like the 1911 feel riding the safety with the thumb. The safety is in the perfect position and the thumb propped on the safety seems to enhance a steady grip.

I like DA/SA semiautos, but at the range rarely ever shoot them in DA first shot mode.

DA/SA revolvers (with good triggers) are fun in both modes.

Got no complaints with the Glock trigger, but the Glock doesn't go to the range as much as some of the others. Dunno why. It shoots about as good as any of the rest when it gets to go.

[Guest BenderBendingRodriguez]

I grew up on DA/SA, started carrying with DAO, and have just acquired my first "safe action" Glock. I think they all have their place.

I like the DA/SA mostly as a bedside gun (or a range gun). Keep it in DA most of the time, safety off. If you get startled, you can always take that first shot in DA mode, but if you hear an intruder you may have time to go ahead and cock that hammer to get yourself an easy first shot.

I have my little Kahr for carrying. I like the consistency of trigger pull in a stressful situation, and if I had to pull it on the streets or wherever I would certainly appreciate the simplicity of it. Remove from holster, point, pull trigger. Every shot is the same, there are no levers or switches to worry about, and the pull is hard enough that I have no concerns about a negligent discharge but still light and smooth enough that I can shoot it well fairly quickly.

Just shot my new Glock for the first time over the weekend. The Glock trigger is not as smooth as the trigger on my Kahr, but the weight of the pull actually feels fairly similar. In return for a bit less smoothness, I get a lot higher capacity and a much shorter trigger reset (the reset on the Kahr is essentially the entire trigger pull). You also get the same pluses of a consistent trigger pull and no levers or switches to confuse you in a moment of excitement and lost fine motor control. It shot well for me, and I suspect I will put it into the carry rotation (at least as a cold weather gun) as soon as I find a good holster for it.

[Guest smileyguy]

I love the feel of a nice SA, but I don't own any due to the necessity of the stupid button. I consider my handguns defensive tools, therefore KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. I like the XD/Glock safe action type trigger better than most heavier DAOs. Despite the stupid buttons I like DA/SA because you can leave the safety off. I love JMB so I'm almost ashamed to say that I'm not a fan of the 1911 as a defensive tool. Although, if I ever got into competitive shooting, first thing I'd get was a tuned 1911.

[mikegideon]

Striker gun for self defense (Glock, M&P, XD). At the range... doesn't matter to me.

[Guest friesepferd]

SAO- love it for any purpose. no problem carrying cocked and locked with a SA. Did it for many many years. Also love it for target shooting for its accuracy.

DAO- for me, no thanks. being the wussy female that I am, I don't like heavy trigers. I just simply cannot keep from moving when I pull them. Now some kind of LDA, thats different. I have no problem with the concept of DAO, I just generally dont like the heavy trigger pull

DA/SA- also not really for me. I would prefer that the trigger pulls are constant, but i can certainly see the use. Especially ones you can just carry cocked and locked.

the various strikers- like them a lot. may not be as sexy of a trigger pull as a SA, but its light enough that its not a problem for me and works well. My current carry gun is as such (XDm). I guess I like that both the trigger is managable for me, but I still feel safe enough to use it without a safety. For me, very similar to a LDA, DAK, etc.

DAK- same as LDA/striker type thing for me. I have no problem with them, I just dont happen to have a Sig.

[Guest BungieCord]

Striker gun for self defense (Glock, M&P, XD). At the range... doesn't matter to me.

+1. When it comes to SD, I prefer DAO because they are safe to CCW without the use of a manual safety.

[mikegideon]

Can't really mix strikers in with DAO. I'm not a fan of long heavy pulls, like the LCP. I have one, and carry it sometimes, but it's not my favorite.

[mav]

Nothing beats a light crisp pull of a SA 1911. SAO is by far my favorite choice in triggers.

I can't stand DA/SA and DAO triggers. The DA trigger pull is usually abhorently heavy. I own only one DA/SA gun, and it will soon be sold or traded.

I really like the Safe Action on Glocks. While they aren't fantastic out of the box, you can easily and cheaply manipulate them to make them much better. You can also buy trigger kits and make them fantastic. My G34 with a Vanek trigger has around a 2 lb trigger pull. While it isn't a wise choise for SD, it is a great range/competition gun.

[chemprof]

Thanks for all your thoughts! Keep 'em coming! I, too, love the SA, and will agree with the Glock fans. I think it actually helped me at first, and to always have the consistent "pull" for every shot to help me with control. Right now I have one carry that's actually SA/DA and really like it--although I'll admit to being nervous keeping it cocked and locked, as my DAO's is in itself the safety as y'all mentioned. Now I'm wondering if it's worth having the ones with the decocker--really significant to you and your shooting or uses? Peace of mind? Thanks again for your thoughts!

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Hi Chemprof

Dunno much about it, just thinking out loud about your question--

CZ 75 type guns come in all kind of styles. Most are DA/SA, though there are a few that are SA only, and maybe there are even DA only models.

Some of the CZ DA/SA models come with decockers and some do not. My CZ 85 Combat is DA/SA with a safety but no decocking function. To enhance trigger feel, that particular model also comes with no firing pin block. The firing pin block adds a little slop to the CZ 75 type guns. Most of the models do have the firing pin block.

Am guessing the 85 Combat variant is mainly bought as a range toy, but it is a strange combination-- Without the firing pin block, with the hammer down and a round chambered, the gun is not drop safe if you get unlucky and drop it just exactly the wrong way. Although it could be carried safety-off, hammer down, DA-first-shot, there would be that slight risk of the gun getting bumped real hard the wrong way.

So if one wanted to carry that model, I think the safest method would be cocked-n-locked. The safety can't be applied unless the hammer is cocked (like a 1911), but with it cocked'n'locked it ought to be pretty safe from accidental discharge if bumped. About like carrying a 1911.

The absence of a decocker makes you have to be real careful with the gun. If you wanted to carry it hammer-down on a loaded chamber, you would have to point the gun in a safe direction, hold onto the hammer, pull the trigger and gently let the hammer go down all the way. Don't slip! Easy enough at the range. Maybe not so easy if you needed to do it in a hotel room or whatever, and your finger slips off the hammer.

Anyway, the 85C is kinda a special-purpose variant and most CZ 75's have different operational features. It is just an interesting combination of double action and single action possibilities.

====

I like beretta 92FS which is DA/SA, a really good SA-mode trigger. The safety works as a safety when engaged. If you pull the trigger with the safety on, the trigger just goes all the way back without doing anything. Also the safety rotates a transfer bar out of alignment so there is no way in hell the hammer could actuate the firing pin when the gun is on safe. On the other hand it has sufficient firing pin block safety that most people consider the gun safe to carry hammer-down and safety-off.

When you apply the safety it decocks the gun. You can't carry cocked'n'locked. The way the decocker works, it seems extremely unlikely the mechanism would fail in such a way to lead to an accidental discharge. I like the "solidness" of the decocker, but of course you aim it in some safe direction just in case.

Have tried to talk myself into getting a Taurus PT99 for years. It is a modified 92FS clone. They are supposed to be good guns, but every time I've looked at one in person it looked a little "cosmetically rough" compared to the impeccable machining of a 92, and never got around to buying one.

Was looking at the PT99's again the other day and they seem to offer a lot of options. The safety is three-way-- Safe, Fire, and Decock. You could carry it hammer-down with the safety on, or carry it hammer-down with the safety off. You can load then use the decocker to safely drop the hammer for hammer-down carry. You can also carry it cocked-n-locked and have a SA first shot. The placement of the safety looks like it would be about as ergonomic to operate as a 1911. There seems to be a lot going for that design.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Lester Weevils

[wcsc12]

I was wondering what y'all thought (preferred) about each of the options listed in the post title. I own something in most of 'em, but not all. NOT making this a question about firearm brand at all.

What pros/cons are there for you with each configuration, and perhaps (surely?) it depends on what the firearm's task will be. Could we limit this to just pistols for now and leave the wheels for later?

1. In general what do you think about the options (SA, DAO, DA/SA, SA/DA, DAK, "Safe Action")?

2. Does the option you like depend on whether it's for (& how...)

(a) target/plinking

( CCW

© competition shooting

(d) hunting

(e) Zombie hunting

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts and experiences!

I prefer DA/SA because you at least have an option. The good thing about it is that majority of the time, you'll be firing in SA anyway. However, and this is the bad thing, you'll have to practice with that long DA pull to really make sure you're used it in case you need to fire from DA.

DAO is essentially the hammer always fires from the decocked position. This is good and bad depending on the user. For my tastes and with my gun, that's a 10lb trigger pull every time. There's nothing fun about that. If the trigger pull is lowered to around say 5lbs, it's not that bad but it depends entirely on the trigger.

Now the exception to the above are the Glocks, xD's, M&P's and Sigmas. There's also probably a lot of others but they are generally the polymer pistols that you have to rack the slide in order to be able to fire the gun. That has it's good and bad uses as well. Particularly not fun on FTFire's. Unfortunately, you have to rack the slide, eject the magazine, and then put the bullet back into the magazine and then put the magazine back into the pistol vs just pulling the trigger again with a DA/SA. With a SA pistol, you just recock the hammer with your thumb and pull the trigger again. Still easier than the above.

DAK I don't really know much about. I know it's Sig's proprietary DAO system but that's about it.

SA is like the DAO system except you can only fire from the cocked position. The good thing about this is that you generally always have a light trigger pull. In most guns, you'll have a hammer and you can either manually cock it back or whenever you rack the slide, it will cock back. Good for range use.

As far as target shooting, you really can't go wrong with any pistol firing type choice. It just all depends on the user. Firing from SA using a DA/SA pistol is just as fun as shooting a DAO pistol IMO.

CCW is dealer's choice in whatever you're most comfortable with on a daily basis.

Zombie Hunting....DA/SA all the way...why...because if your bullet doesn't fire, you don't have to rack the slide before you can fire another shot...just pull the trigger again.

Edited June 2, 2011 by wcsc12

[Jonnin]

The decocker is handy. For the DA guns that cannot be cocked & locked, its the only safe way to drop the hammer back when re-holstering etc apart from unloading it. A very important feature on some guns.

[Magiccarpetrides]

I am a Sig Fanatic and have actually found that I prefer the DA/SA over SAO or DAO...now the DAK trigger...its pretty dang sweet...kind of like a worked over Smiths Double Action...its quite smooth and crisp....also the Kahr's have very good DAO triggers. My hands down fave though is the Sig DA/SA with SRT(short reset trigger)....I carry with one in the chamber and the first pull is heavy enough you won't shoot your butt off, but the rest of the pulls are so short as to be effortless.

[TN-popo]

I'm a strong believer in a defensive pistol having 1 trigger pull (SA, DAO, or "Safe-Action").

Yes, I know you can train to become very good with a DA gun, but it takes alot more effort (observations from military service and 14 years of LE firearms instructor/SWAT duties).

Also, while I still love 1911s and HiPowers, for me personally, I'm no longer interested in having a manual safety.

1 trigger pull, no manual safety = more "stupidproof" (which is a good thing during life saving activities).

BTW, it's Glock for me.