What Would You Do During a Mall Shooting?

[Guest Grout]

Here is the story and interview of the Denver church guard.www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14817480/detail.html

[PackinMama]

"All that is necessary for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing".Edmund Burke.

Good quote Grout +1. Something to think about.

[jgrauman]

I read through the pages quickly so not sure if this was brought up, but what are the thoughts in this situation of drawing your weapon while in retreat? i know instinctively i would get down and draw if i heard shots, but what if all of us were in the mall and shots were fired? Imagine turning around and seeing 5 people with drawn guns and not knowing who just fired a shot... just another thought to add to an almost impossible situation.

[PackinMama]

Wow......that's not a good thought at all. I don't even know how to respond to that one.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

I read through the pages quickly so not sure if this was brought up, but what are the thoughts in this situation of drawing your weapon while in retreat? i know instinctively i would get down and draw if i heard shots, but what if all of us were in the mall and shots were fired? Imagine turning around and seeing 5 people with drawn guns and not knowing who just fired a shot... just another thought to add to an almost impossible situation.

i think you would be able to tell who's the bad guy by the way they would look five people looking in the same direction

[molonlabetn]

That is a valid concern though... what happens when you draw in response to hearing shots fired, and everyone around you assumes that you are the shooter?

[Guest TargetShooter84]

my opinion for this situation is to just get the hell outta there as fast as you can....I may be 23 and have HCP but I have too much to live for and I'd leave it up to the professionals like LEO or guards.

[Marswolf]

You should be able to determine how immediate the threat is to you. Assessment is the first step. If you don't see the shooter, or if you see a rush of people in your direction, you are not likely in immediate danger. GET OUT! You aren't Law Enforcement. You job is not to protect and preserve - except preserving you life and those you care about. If you play Joe amateur cop, you are a fool who may cost the state the cost of a body bag. This is especially true if you have never been shot at before.

In short, you are not Roy Rogers unless you are riding on Trigger. Even then, Roy got "winged" on occasion. I guess it didn't hurt him. YMMV. Roy was a better man than I.

Until you are in immediate danger, keep your handgun concealed. Your mind is your most important weapon. You should have already looked for cover, in case you can not evade the threat. You should have instinctively looked for it before the SHTF. Planters or whatever.

Prep for these situations should come long before the event. Plan for the worst. You don't have to be paranoid, just prepared.

[Marswolf]

or guards.

:rofl::rofl:

Around here, the best weapon they have is a radio. Granny Grunt could take them.

But I totally agree that you should get out.

[Guest Medic908]

... Your mind is your most important weapon.,.

Prep for these situations should come long before the event. Plan for the worst. You don't have to be paranoid, just prepared.

+1

[Guest Engloid]

You aren't Law Enforcement. You job is not to protect and preserve - except preserving you life and those you care about. If you play Joe amateur cop, you are a fool who may cost the state the cost of a body bag. This is especially true if you have never been shot at before.

Try telling that to the lady security guard that saved unknown numbers of lives when somebody started shooting at the church. Note that ALL the security guards at the church are volunteers. She's just another citizen, and she went up against a shooter that had two handguns, an assault rifle, and 1000 rounds of ammo.

Then, go tell that to all the families that didn't get killed that day. See if they agree with you, that this lady should have ran out of the church and left them to die.

There's a reason that TN laws allow you to use deadly force when you are protecting somebody that is facing deadly force. It's because there are some people out there that will help instead of run.

i think you would be able to tell who's the bad guy by the way they would look five people looking in the same direction

Most likely, only one person will be shooting at unarmed people. The BG will be shooting everybody he sees.

I hate to say it, but after reading this thread, it sure seems like there's a lot of people that would turn their back from a bad situation, when they possibly have the ability to help a lot of people. I couldn't do it. You all could live with knowing that people died because you were too scared to help. I couldn't. I may not be a cop, but I'm no chicken either.

[jgrauman]

i think you would be able to tell who's the bad guy by the way they would look five people looking in the same direction

i was curious as to how quickly the threat was determined in the OP's paintball run through. everyone was carrying and you had to quickly determine the threat and then act accordingly. if someone started shooting and everyone had a paintball gun i would say in that situation it was difficult to determine who actually was doing the shooting, slowing your response time.

I hate to say it, but after reading this thread, it sure seems like there's a lot of people that would turn their back from a bad situation, when they possibly have the ability to help a lot of people. I couldn't do it. You all could live with knowing that people died because you were too scared to help. I couldn't. I may not be a cop, but I'm no chicken either.

i live in chattanooga and at any one time there are 1000's of people in the hamilton place mall. if there was a shooting 1000's of people would be running scared, i can't imagine trying to determine who was who, acquire a target and fire back all while i'm being shoved around by those running for the exits. i would love to help in that situation, but could YOU live with yourself if you shot somebody's teenager who happened to run in front of you while trying to take out the gunman? it's a tough call, either you return home safely to your loved ones (run), possibly shoot an innocent bystander, get killed, or be in such a position as to actually stop the threat. the latter being the least likely.

[Guest Engloid]

i would love to help in that situation, but could YOU live with yourself if you shot somebody's teenager who happened to run in front of you while trying to take out the gunman? it's a tough call, either you return home safely to your loved ones (run), possibly shoot an innocent bystander, get killed, or be in such a position as to actually stop the threat. the latter being the least likely.

If you're lacking that much confidence in your abilities to shoot and/or make good decisions under pressure, perhaps you should reconsider carrying a gun. I'm confident that if I didn't have a good (safe) shot, I'd not take it. Then again, if a shooter has 1000 rounds, and you accidentally hit an innocent person AND the shooter, you likely saved many more than your poor shot hit.

How would you feel if the cops did what many of you are saying you'd do (run scared)? They have families to think about also.

I guess I'm just really disappointed in what I've read here. In one thread, I read about people saying they should be able to shoot a person that steals from them (and is unarmed), and then here I read about people that want to run from a situation in which they could save a lot of lives (an armed shooter). Think about it...on one hand, you want to shoot an unarmed person over a tv, but then you run scared from somebody that's killing innocent people? Gutless is the nicest word I can think of to describe it.

Edited March 2, 2008 by Engloid

[Guest canynracer]

Try telling that to the lady security guard that saved unknown numbers of lives when somebody started shooting at the church. Note that ALL the security guards at the church are volunteers. She's just another citizen, and she went up against a shooter that had two handguns, an assault rifle, and 1000 rounds of ammo.

Then, go tell that to all the families that didn't get killed that day. See if they agree with you, that this lady should have ran out of the church and left them to die.

She is an Ex LEO.....I can bet money that she has had better training than the average HCP holder such as myself.

I hate to say it, but after reading this thread, it sure seems like there's a lot of people that would turn their back from a bad situation, when they possibly have the ability to help a lot of people. I couldn't do it. You all could live with knowing that people died because you were too scared to help. I couldn't. I may not be a cop, but I'm no chicken either.

It has nothing to do with chicken, and I think most said the same thing, if there was an opportunity to take the shot, then yes, but to run in looking for the fight is NOT the first priority for me, the safety of my wife and 3 kids are my PRIMARY concern, the shooter is a second to that at best, that is not chicken, it is smart

[Guest Engloid]

It has nothing to do with chicken, and I think most said the same thing, if there was an opportunity to take the shot, then yes, but to run in looking for the fight is NOT the first priority for me, the safety of my wife and 3 kids are my PRIMARY concern, the shooter is a second to that at best, that is not chicken, it is smart

I never said to sacrifice your wife and kids. So after you make sure your wife and kids are safe, you would take a "save my own ass" tactic, when there could be innocent kids die because of it?

[Im Neero]

I haven't weighed in on this thread yet because I don't know. Mars pointed out how foolhardy it would be to rush into a situation like that without proper training, especially if you had never been shot at before, and since I've never been shot at and I think he has a time or two, I'm inclined to agree.

I'd like to think that I could throw caution to the wind, run in and save the day, but that's a daydream and I know it.

I have thought this situation out before though, and my plan would be to get into the closest store and get to the back room and wait, keeping an eye out on the front of the store. If someone came around the corner shooting at people, I'd probably return fire, especially if he came toward my position, if not, I'd keep my ass put. As far as heroism I'd do my best to get as many people into the back room as I could, but beyond that, I'm not looking to get in an avoidable gunfight any time soon.

[jgrauman]

I never said to sacrifice your wife and kids. So after you make sure your wife and kids are safe, you would take a "save my own ass" tactic, when there could be innocent kids die because of it?

so you get your wife and kids to safety and then run back in to "save the day?" you have extremely large illusions of grandeur if that is what you would do. running back in and getting killed leaving your wife and kids without a husband and father seems pretty stupid to me.

If you're lacking that much confidence in your abilities to shoot and/or make good decisions under pressure, perhaps you should reconsider carrying a gun. I'm confident that if I didn't have a good (safe) shot, I'd not take it. Then again, if a shooter has 1000 rounds, and you accidentally hit an innocent person AND the shooter, you likely saved many more than your poor shot hit.

as already stated, i would take the shot if i had it and am confident that i would hit what i was aiming at. Come off your tower and have a discussion with the rest of us. Sorry to disappoint, but no one here cares how large your balls are so put them away.

[Guest canynracer]

I never said to sacrifice your wife and kids. So after you make sure your wife and kids are safe, you would take a "save my own ass" tactic, when there could be innocent kids die because of it?

I can honestly say that after I got my family to safety, I have no IDEA what I would do, to start, I would probably need to change my boxers and regroup...but I WOULD be getting others to safety as well, if the BG was in my sights during that time I would like to think i would take the shot.

in other words, getting family and other innocent people to safety takes presidence to running full boar into a gun battle that I am not specifically trained to fight.

If I encountered the shooter while getting others out of there, then I would remove the threat.

[Guest tcampbell]

Then again, if a shooter has 1000 rounds, and you accidentally hit an innocent person AND the shooter, you likely saved many more than your poor shot hit.

You need to read up on your self defense laws, especially when it pertains to coming to the defense of others. Shoot an innocent person and get put away for some time...doesn't matter if it's an accident or not. Plus you can face a civil suit for shooting an innocent bystander. Doesn't matter what the situation is. You can only hit the BG. I agree with the others..my family comes first. I am not going to worry myself to death over it. Hopefully I never get in that situation.

[Im Neero]

Yea, but it'll be ok cuz he's a hero.

Edited March 2, 2008 by Im Neero

[Guest canynracer]

naw...your title changes when you shoot an innocent person...you go from Hero to Suspect in zero flat

[molonlabetn]

Regardless of the circumstances, none of us nor law enforcement has the authority to unquestionably decide who to sacrifice for the 'greater good', through our own actions. I certainly wouldn't take a shot which I was aware could injure an innocent person. Like Mars said, your mind is the ultimate weapon, and using any weapon indiscriminately is both ethically and (in most cases) legally wrong.

[Im Neero]

In case there was any confusion as to my tone, I added a to it.

[Guest canynracer]

Naw...We got it... heh

[The Rabbi]

I'm with Mars, and it echoes a remark made by Bob Camponovo during my NRA instructor training: everyone else had the same opportunity to get armed and trained as I did. It isn't my fault they didn't do it and I did. I am not there to put myself at risk for someone else. If circumstances force me to shoot, I'll do it. But I'm not going to go look for it. It sounds bad I know, but me and my family come way before anyone else.