Jose Guerena Shot 60 times by Swat in his Home

[JG55]

Not sure what to make of this story. Could go either way, obviously more information is needed to come to a accurate conclusion. But I must say if what I have read so far is true, we all should be concerned about the militarization of the swat teams.

Oath Keepers Plan Memorial Day Rally in Honor of Jose Guerena

Posted by Jim Hoft on Monday, May 30, 2011, 10:05 AM

DRAMATIC FOOTAGE was released this week showing Pima County SWAT Team members gunning down an Iraq War veteran inside his home.

The SWAT Team beat in his door and fired 70 rounds at the Iraq War veteran before he fired a shot.

They shot Iraqi veteran Jose Guerena 60 times after they barged into his home.

Today the Oath Keepers are holding a protest in honor of Jose Guerena.

Forbes reported, via Free Republic:

Via

Radley Balko

, the Oath Keepers – a group of law enforcement officials who have taken an oath to only follow constitutional orders – are planning a memorial rally on May 30th for slain ex-marine Jose Guerena. Guerena was killed by a SWAT team in Arizona earlier this month, while his wife and four-year-old son hid in the house. You can read more about Guerena’s killing

here

. The Oath Keepers have

this to say on their home page

:

He died with his safety still on. He didn’t fire a shot. The Pima County, Arizona (Sheriff Dupnik’s department), SWAT Team fired 71 rounds at him, hitting him with approximately 60 rounds. He had no criminal record. The only justification given by the Sheriff’s spokesman for using SWAT to serve the warrant was that it was a search warrant in a narcotics conspiracy investigation (with three other homes searched in the same neighborhood), and that this is their policy when the home-owner may be armed

This policy of using SWAT to serve mere search warrants on people with no violent criminal history will lead to more deaths of veterans and other trained American gun owners because a trained man will react precisely the same way this young Marine did.

We must take a stand on this use of SWAT against gun owners and veterans who have no violent crime history, and that stand needs to be a firm one.

Oath Keepers Plan Memorial Day Rally in Honor of Jose Guerena | The Gateway Pundit

[mikegideon]

He died with his safety still on

What does this mean? Was he armed when SWAT came in the door? WTF was he thinking?

[DaveTN]

He died with his safety still on

What does this mean? Was he armed when SWAT came in the door? WTF was he thinking?

I don’t think this happened; I think this story was made up by the press.

[dou44]

someone is kicking in my door i will grab a gun also.cops have been known to kick in doors then anounce who they are .are you going to wait to see who is kicking in your door before you arm yourself.i usually take a gun with me when someone knocks on mine.that is one thing i like about my xd40 no safty to mess with

[JG55]

I don’t think this happened; I think this story was made up by the press.

Are you serious ? I guess the press in Tucson Az made it all up and the video above was staged in Hollywood > Just like the fake lunar landing..

[JG55]

Radley Balko Radley.Balko@huffingtonpost.com

Jose Guerena On May 5 at around 9:30 a.m., several teams of Pima County, Ariz., police officers from at least four different police agencies armed with SWAT gear and an armored personnel carrier raided at least four homes as part of what at the time was described as an investigation into alleged marijuana trafficking. One of those homes belonged to 26-year-old Jose Guerena and his wife, Vanessa Guerena. The couple's 4-year-old son was also in the house at the time. Their 6-year-old son was at school.

As the SWAT team forced its way into his home, Guerena, a former Marine who served two tours of duty in Iraq, armed himself with his AR-15 rifle and told his wife and son to hide in a closet. As the officers entered, Guerena confronted them from the far end of a long, dark hallway. The police opened fire, releasing more than 70 rounds in about 7 seconds, at least 60 of which struck Guerena. He was pronounced dead a little over an hour later.

The Pima County Sheriff's Department initially claimed (PDF) Guerena fired his weapon at the SWAT team. They now acknowledge that not only did he not fire, the safety on his gun was still activated when he was killed. Guerena had no prior criminal record, and the police found nothing illegal in his home. After ushering out his wife and son, the police refused to allow paramedics to access Guerena for more than hour, leaving the young father to bleed to death, alone, in his own home.

I can now report a number of new details that further call into question the police account of what happened that morning. But first some context:

The Pima County Sheriff's Office has now changed its story several times over the last few weeks. They have issued a press release (PDF) scolding the media and critics for questioning the legality of the raid, the department's account of what happened, and the department's ability to fairly investigate its own officers. They have obtained a court order sealing the search warrants and police affidavits that led to the raids, and they're now refusing any further comment on the case at all. When I contacted Public Information Officer Jason Ogan with some questions, he replied via email that the department won't be releasing any more information. On Saturday, Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik told Arizona Daily Star columnist Josh Brodesky that he may never release the search warrants and police affidavits. Dupnik rose to national prominence earlier this year after claiming combative political rhetoric contributed to Jared Loughner killing six people and wounding 19 others, including Rep. Gabielle Giffords, last January.

The department's excuses for keeping all of this information under wraps make little sense. In his May 18 press release (PDF), for example, Ogan wrote, "The investigation that lead to the service of the search warrants on May 5 is a complicated one involving multiple people suspected of very serious crimes. Sometimes, law enforcement agencies must choose between the desire of the public to quickly know details, and the very real threat to innocent lives if those details are released prematurely." Dupnik used the same line of reasoning with Brodesky. "Those are the real sensitive parts of why we are having difficulty with trying to put information out publicly--because we don't want somebody getting killed," Dupnik said.

The problem with that explanation is that the search warrants and affidavits weren't sealed until four days after the raids were executed, right at about the time the troubling questions about Jose Guerena's death began to make national headlines. If revealing the details of this investigation -- which remember, was initially described by the Sheriff's Department as a marijuana investigation -- could endanger lives, why weren't the warrants and affidavits sealed from the start? It isn't difficult to understand why some would suspect a cover-up, or at least an attempt to suppress details until the department can come up with a narrative that mitigates the damage. In any case, it's awfully audacious for a police agency to scold the media for not trusting them and for "spreading misinformation" just days after revealing they themselves released bad information.

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There are other reasons to doubt the excuse that releasing the search warrants would jeopardize public safety. The raids on the other homes carried out that same morning, all part of the same operation, resulted in no arrests and turned up little if any actual contraband. (When police find illegal substances after these raids -- especially raids that end badly -- they usually quickly release that information.)

Moreover, if this was all about breaking up a dangerous home invasion ring, where are the suspects, and where is the evidence? According to an advocate for the Guerena family I spoke with this week, the police also mistakenly raided another home near Guerena's the same morning, and have since replaced that home's front door. Again, the Pima County Sheriff's Department is refusing comment, so I can't verify this allegation with them. But police officials have admitted that even the Guerena warrant was only for his residence, not for Jose Guerena personally; his name doesn't appear anywhere on the warrants. The police also concede they weren't aware that there was a child in the home at the time of the raid. Given all of this, it seems reasonable to question just how thorough this investigation really was.

I've been reporting on the overuse of SWAT teams and military police tactics for about six years now. You begin to see patterns in how police agencies respond to high-profile incidents like this one. One near-universal tactic is to lock down information once the media begins to grow skeptical. Another, often undertaken simultaneously, is to unofficially leak information that's beneficial to the police department. They're doing both in Tucson.

Michael Storie, the attorney for the Arizona police union, is apparently handling the smear campaign portion of the strategy. Storie points out on the union's website that under his watch, no union police officer "has ever been convicted on charges relating to on-duty conduct." That may be a boastworthy claim when it comes to Storie's lawyering prowess. But it isn't exactly a testament to his trustworthiness. (Police critic William Grigg also points out that the boast isn't entirely true -- Storie represented a cop convicted of a sexual assault and kidnapping committed in 2005, despite Storie's best efforts to blame the victims.)

On Friday, Storie told the Arizona Daily Star that Guerena was "linked" to a "home-invasion crew," and that police found rifles, handguns, body armor, and a "portion of a law-enforcement uniform" in Guerena's house. "Everything they think they're going to find in there, they find," Storie said. "Put it together, and when you have drug rip-offs that occasionally happen where people disguise themselves as law enforcement officers, it all adds up."

I asked Chris Scileppi, the attorney representing Guerena's family, about the "portion of a law enforcement uniform" allegation. "They're trying to imply that he was dressing up as a police officer to force his way into private homes," Scileppi says. But when police serve a search warrant they leave behind a receipt what they've taken from the residence. According to Scileppi, the only item taken from Gurena's home that remotely fits that description was a U.S. Border Control cap -- which you can buy from any number of retail outlets, including Amazon.com.

About the guns and body armor Scileppi says, "Is it really that difficult to believe that a former Marine living in Arizona would have guns and body armor in his home? Nothing they found in the house is illegal to own in Arizona." In fact, Storie himself acknowledged in the Daily Star that had the SWAT team entered Guerena's home peacefully, they wouldn't have made an arrest.

And when you "put it together," to borrow his own terminology, Storie's comments thus far lead to a pretty astonishing conclusion: After violently breaking into Guerena's home, the police found exactly the evidence they were looking for -- yet none of that evidence merited an arrest. Storie is either shamelessly posturing, or he actually believes that the police are justified in violently forcing their way into a private home with their guns drawn, even if they have no expectation that they'll find any evidence of a crime.

At his press conference last week, Storie also defended the SWAT team's refusal to allow paramedics to access Guerena for more than hour. "They still don't know how many shooters are inside, how many guns are inside and they still have to assume that they will be ambushed if they walk in this house," Storie said.

This is absurd. The entire purpose of using SWAT teams, dynamic entry, and like paramilitary-style police tactics is to subdue dangerous suspects and secure the building within seconds. If it took more than an hour to secure the Guerenas' small home, this particular SWAT team was incompetent. By contrast, paramedics were tending to the wounded after the Jared Loughner shootings within 12 minutes, and that was a far more volatile crime scene.

Storie has offered up a number of other questionable allegations and explanations in recent days.

Last week, for example, Storie told the Daily Star that the investigation leading up to the raids was from the start about home invasions and "drug rip-offs" -- not just marijuana distribution, as the Sheriff's Department initially indicated. Storie also says the police vehicles ran their lights and sirens until they were parked in the Guerenas' driveway, and that a police officer knocked on the door and announced himself for a full 45 seconds before the SWAT team forced its way inside. He emphasized that the raid was "in no way" a "no-knock" operation.

Storie is laying groundwork for the argument that Guerena should have known that the men breaking into his home were police. That he still met them with his rifle meant he was intent on killing them, which of course would justify their rash of gunfire. For good measure, Storie added that just before they opened fire, several officers reported hearing Guerena say, "I've got something for you; I've gotten something for you guys."

There are a number of problems here, beginning with the lights, the sirens, and the knocking. If these warrants were, as Storie claims, for suspected dangerous, well-armed members of a home invasion ring, why would they give a violent suspect such ample warning that they're coming? Why wouldn't the police have sought and obtained a no-knock warrant? This is precisely the scenario for which no-knock entry is warranted -- to apprehend suspected dangerous people who may present an immediate threat to police and the public.

This week I also spoke with Ray Epps, a retired Marine sergeant from Mesa, Arizona and president of the Arizona chapter of Oath Keepers, the controversial organization of police and military personnel who have vowed not to enforce laws they believe are unconstitutional. After hearing about Guerena's death, Epps drove to Tucson to investigate.

"We spoke with several of the neighbors," Epps says. "And none of them -- none of them -- heard any sirens that morning. Every one of them told us they didn't hear anything, no knocking, no shouting, until the shooting started. They didn't hear anything until the shooting started." Scileppi, who is conducting his own investigation, wouldn't say if he had spoken to neighbors, but did say of the lights and sirens, "What we've found contradicts what they're saying." Epps added, "What I found disturbing is that none of the neighbors would give us their names. These people are terrified of the police, now. Another thing I found strange, they said the police didn't evacuate them until after the shooting."

If next-door neighbors didn't hear the sirens or police announcement at the door, it's plausible that Guerena, who was sleeping off the graveyard shift he'd worked the night before, didn't hear them either. Of course, the other possibility here is that the police are lying about the sirens and the announcement.

To buy what Storie is pitching, you would have to believe that Guerena -- the father of two young boys, who was working a night job to save money for a new home, who had no criminal record, who served two tours of duty in Iraq and was honorably discharged -- knowingly took on a team of armored, well-armed police officers, himself armed only with his rifle, and with his wife and young child still in the home. You'd also have to believe that the battle-tested former Marine forgot to turn off his weapon's safety before the shooting began.

The alternate explanation -- and I think the more plausible one -- is that Guerena thought the men breaking into his home were criminals, but held his fire until he was sure. (That's also the mark of someone well-trained in gun safety, and a stark contrast to the SWAT team, which despite never receiving hostile fire, unleashed a barrage of bullets that penetrated not only Jose Guerena but, according to sources I spoke with, also the walls of neighboring homes.)

If you're not actually a criminal and you wake up to the sound of armed men breaking into your home, your first thought isn't likely to be that you're being visited by the police. There may also have been something else on Guerena's mind: Last year, two of Vanessa Guerena's relatives were murdered by armed intruders. The intruders also shot the couple's children. What Guerena is alleged to have said -- "I've got something for you; I've gotten something for you guys" -- sounds damning if you assume he knew the men in his home were police, but there's nothing in that sentence indicating Guerena knew he was confronting cops. It also sounds like something a former soldier might shout out to intimidate armed intruders. And let's not forget, the same team of SWAT officers who reported hearing Guerena say those words also reported seeing a muzzle flash from Guerena's gun, which we now know couldn't have happened.

Storie also says police found a photo of Jesus Malverde in Guerena's home. Malverde is an iconic, probably mythical figure often described as the "narco saint". But as my former Reason magazine colleague Tim Cavanaugh points out, while it's true that Malverde has been embraced by drug traffickers, he is also revered by the poor, by immigrants, and by people who feel they've been wronged. "That Guerena had a picture of Jesus Malverde tells us two things," Cavanaugh writes. "He had a family to worry about and he shared the belief of most Americans that a supernatural being or beings can influence earthly circumstances."

When Daily Star columnist Josh Brodesky asked Sheriff Dupnik if Storie's chats with the press about the details of the Guerena raid were hindering the investigation, Dupnik said, simply, "No." So while Dupnik's department is refusing to officially release any information about the raid or surrounding investigation due to "the real threat to innocent lives," he has no problem with the police union lawyer disclosing details that smear Guerena to the benefit of Dupnik and his department.

Perhaps we will at some point see convincing evidence that Dupnik and Storie are right -- that Jose Guerena was in fact a drug dealer and violent criminal who dressed up like a cop to rob rival drug dealers and innocent citizens of Pima County. But at this point, all we have is a dead father and veteran, a violent series of raids that make little sense, and a police agency that over the last three weeks has put out incorrect information, insisted that it would be dangerous to release any further information, and, at the same time, allowed a police representative to release information favorable to the department.

The government of Pima County has killed one of its own citizens. This is the most serious, solemn, and severe action a local government can undertake. It demands complete transparency. The Pima County Sheriff's Department and other agencies involved in the raid ought to be doing anything and everything to make themselves accountable. Instead, they've shown arrogance, defiance, and obstinacy -- all wrapped in an appeal to public safety.

Jose Guerena Killed: Arizona Cops Shoot Former Marine In Botched Pot Raid

Edited May 30, 2011 by JG55

[DaveTN]

Are you serious ? I guess the press in Tucson Az made it all up and the video above was staged in Hollywood > Just like the fake lunar landing..

Oops… I forgot to add this…

You are a day late and a dollar short.

[mikegideon]

I don’t think this happened; I think this story was made up by the press.

Not totally made up. The guy had an AR in his hands.

http://pimasheriff.org/files/1013/0463/5381/OIS050511.pdf

[Caster]

If they ever mistakenly come here & fail to ID themselves before hitting the door, there's a great likelyhood I'll die right here.

[mikegideon]

Oops… I forgot to add this…

You are a day late and a dollar short.

Yep, it's coming back to me now.

[DaveTN]

If they ever mistakenly come here & fail to ID themselves before hitting the door, there's a great likelyhood I'll die right here.

What if they turned on a siren on the huge azz Police vehicle parked in your driveway, were in full police uniforms, and was yelling “POLICE!! SEARCH WARRANT†as they came through the door? Would you still be dead then?

I guess if you pulled a rifle and pointed it at them you would be.

[Caster]

What if they turned on a siren on the huge azz Police vehicle parked in your driveway, were in full police uniforms, and was yelling “POLICE!! SEARCH WARRANT” as they came through the door? Would you still be dead then?

I guess if you pulled a rifle and pointed it at them you would be.

I do believe I said "AND FAIL TO ID THEMSLEVES" If what you described happens, I'd invite them in and offer them a cup of coffee while I put my shoes on.

[DaveTN]

I do believe I said "AND FAIL TO ID THEMSLEVES" If what you described happens, I'd invite them in and offer them a cup of coffee while I put my shoes on.

So would I.

And no one failed to identify themselves; there is video on-line on the entry.

Lester started it in post #92 of this thread…

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/national-politics-legislation/57430-indiana-repeals-4th-amendment.html

[JG55]

Guns is on Safe, Never fired, Doesn't say whether he raised it or not. Car alarm is going off, someone is banging on your door, You live in a rough area and you are thinking of protecting your wife and son, And in all that confusion. Swat fired 71 shots hitting him 60 times. And nothing illegal is found in the home.. For me that raises alot of unanswered questions.

Take some time and read the articles or do some goggling for other articles

[DaveTN]

Take some time and read the articles or do some goggling for other articles

Okay…. I’ll see if I can figure It out.

[East_TN_Patriot]

YouTube - Tucson SWAT Shot U.S. Marine Over 60 Times in Front of Family‏

The more I read and see about this, the more I wonder about the legitimacy of this whole thing. No evidence of a crime found at the scene, changing stories from the agency, their approach to the home, all of it is just odd. According to some other reports, multiple search warrants were served that morning and virtually none of them turned up any evidence or arrests. Now the Sheriff says he may never release the documents?

If the suspect is so dangerous that a SWAT team is needed, it makes no sense at all to come walking to the door with the siren blaring. That's just dumb. You stack up quietly, knock and announce, and then breach. WTF???

Edited May 31, 2011 by East_TN_Patriot

[Guest brandon_pitt]

Shadiness and shananigans.

[Magiccarpetrides]

I have nothing against legitimate police officers. With that being said, this whole thing stinks. I understand shooting someone that has an AR drawn, but with no prior record and no evidence of illegal activity they should have just knocked....the guy is a freaking ex-marine. That should stand for something, that should have gotten him enough respect for a normal police department to say hey "this guy is just stuck in a crap neighborhood...lets send some regular blues to his door". Im sorry but they are lucky he didnt shoot first....if anyone knocked down my door im gonna go down in a hail of bullets or they are...no ifs ands or buts....you come into my house unannounced and 1 of us is going home in a body bag. How could he have known it was legitimate police and not some "gang bangers" out to rob him...he didnt, and he died doing the right thing(trying to protect his family)....I hope that everyone that was there on that warrant goes down in flames...this is just disgusting.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Four guys that close together firing that many shots so fast thru a door... Maybe they were a little lucky not to shoot each other?

[bajabuc]

It's a known fact...police are police...civilians are enemy.

[GhstFace38]

A search warrant was signed, by a judge, to search the mans home. There was obviously enough probable cause for the search due to this fact. The judge won't sign a bogus search warrant, for obvious reasons.

The Officers pulled up, turned on their siren for a few, announced themselves several times and made entry. They followed all protocol.

He was a Marine, noted, but they shouldn't treat him any differently than any other search warrant. That's how good guys die.

I'm a gun guy and a Police Officer and it hurts when gun folks get bent out of shape about assumptions made against them yet some seem quick to make assumptions about us. What gives?

Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

[Dolomite_supafly]

It is unfortunate that the younf man died but I can see the officer’s side of things. Up until the young man is lying on the floor dead the officers did absolutely nothing wrong.

The facts are easy to break down in the video.

• At 3 seconds in someone says “hit the horn a little bit" and the sirens go on. At the same time you hear "Police, Search Warrant". Then 10 seonds later someone else calls for it to be turned off. It goes off so the cops had control over it. It is not a car alarm as some have suggested.

• At 18 seconds you ear "Bang, Bang, Bang", over the radio, signalling the start of the operation.

• At 25 seconds an officer aproaches the door, knocks and checks to see if the door is unlocked.

• At 28 seconds you can also hear someone yell “Police, Search Warrant, Open the door”

• Officers breached at 32 seconds in.

• At 40 seconds the shooting begins

Based on the timeline the officers did no just walk up, kick the door in and kill the young man. There were several announcements of “Search Warrant” by other officers at the scene as well prior to anyone entering. Hard to argue the facts.

I have always said that it generally isn't the officer's fault but the administration's fault. The administration's policy of how they serve warrants is what caused this young man's death. They knew where he worked and when he worked. No better time to catch him than on the way to or from work.

The officers themselves were only reacting to a perceived threat. If I would walk up to anyone on this board with a gun pointed at them what would be the response I get? Even if my safety is on I will likely be met with the amount of force needed to stop me. This is what happened here. The officers saw what they thought to be, because of the briefing before hand, a dangerous man holding an AR. They did not know if he was about to fire on them so they acted first. It is a normal reaction by both sides and any one of us would do the same when confronted in a similar way.

I do not fault the Marine in any way shape or form. He was protecting his family with the weapon he is most familiar with. I do believe him just waking up affected his judgement as well as what he heard and perceived.

I do not blame the officers who were on the raid either. The reason is because they had no way of knowing this young Marine's intentions after they had announced their presence. They will now have to live with the fact they took a life. And despite how cool it might sound to some of you taking a life is a life altering event for most.

Who I do blame is the administration that allows events like this to happen. After all how they reached the point where this young man is now dead is administration policy.

Up until the Marine was lying on the floor the officers were not, in any way shape or form, at fault for anything including the young man's death. They did announce their presence and they did knock before breaching. Everyone is ready to crucify these officers but they did nothing wrong until they lied but that was after the young man was already dead. And the young man's death is not the officer's fault.

It was all the attempts to skew the truth after the fact that I take serious issue with. Had they just reported the young man had pointed a firearm at them causing the officers to return fire all would be good and we wouldn’t be discussing it here. The young man was protecting his family and the officers were hopefully following policy. I can't see where the officers did anything wrong until after the young man was already down.

The other serious issue I have is the person who flagged ½ the team with a laser that is probably weapon mounted.

And from my previous posts anyone should know I am a critic of officers and will be the first to shout from the rooftops when something is not right. But in this case the officers did absolutely nothing wrong that lead to the young man's death.

Dolomite

Edited May 31, 2011 by Dolomite_supafly

[GhstFace38]

I must admit my ignorance here: I haven't read all available articles about this situation apparently as I had not heard of and truth skewing.

I'll re-read the articles but in the mean time does anyone have time to elaborate? I'm quite interested as the truth should be the first thing out of one's mouth.

Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

[Magiccarpetrides]

Thanks for the video Dolomite...that does shed more light on events. The police shouldnt have lied since they really had nothing to lie about. Still a shame the man had to die...though if I had done proper procedure as these police officers had and there was a weapon pointed at me I would have opened fire too.

[Guest monkeyhumper]

Ah, yet another victim of the incredible war on the most useful plant this world knows.

END PROHIBITION!