Professional Gunsmith review of Ruger SR1911

[East_TN_Patriot]

I am just going to observe from here on out and not comment because apparently people on here can't accept fact without getting their feelings hurt. I am just shocked though that so far, evryone who has posted on here thinks that 200 rounds through a gun proves it reliable. WOW!!!! Also, if you think Todd Green is just some idiot on the internet you have no business commenting on firearms ever.

I think one comment left in the second link you posted earlier explains what many of us believe about the round count argument:

"...no one knows when the gun is going to fail. what if you have a major part breakage at a high round count? if you replace that part do you now have to fire thousands of new rounds in that gun under the new part to assume it will operate reliably? what about a specific pistol which has been in production long enough to garner a history of reliability based upon a method of design + parts + production?"

And I do think that 200 rounds is enough to determine whether a firearm is reliable. If a gun has problems out of the box, they will manifest themselves within that amount of time. Reliability and durability are two totally different things. Reliability is a matter or mechanical soundness and proper function. Durability is associated with build, design, and material quality. Obviously, the two are interconnected, but a 2000 round torture test tells you something very different than the initial 200 round break-in and familiarization.

Also, I've been in the gun world for over a decade and I've never heard of Todd Green, so to me Todd Green is nothing more than some idiot on the Internet. In fact, I Googled "Todd Green" and all I found were pages on a musician with that name, a reference on Huffington Post about a Todd Green who is a professor of religion, a guy named Todd Green who sells real estate, and a Todd Green who wrote a paper called "Bag equivalence of bounded symmetry degree conjunctive queries with inequalities."

These references don't help change my opinion that the Todd Green you refer to is anything other than some idiot on the Internet who likes to talk about guns.

Sorry if this hurts your feelings.

Edited May 29, 2011 by East_TN_Patriot

[Capbyrd]

Iowegan's review was equally as enthusiastic about the gun. Although he did talk about a few parts that he changed.

That being said, if you're not a Joe Chambers, I think it is a good rule of thumb to put at least 500 rounds of what you carry through the gun before you put it on your hip.

You have ALOT more money than me. I can't afford to spend over 600 dollars on ammo just to see if it is going to feed. I run a box or two of a carry load through and call it good enough. Then again, I don't carry an extra mag with me either so alot of people think I'm nuts.

[timcalhoun]

You have ALOT more money than me. I can't afford to spend over 600 dollars on ammo just to see if it is going to feed. I run a box or two of a carry load through and call it good enough. Then again, I don't carry an extra mag with me either so alot of people think I'm nuts.

Well, you know that is a good point. With the cost of ammo, it really is hard to run that many round of defense ammo through your gun. I get around the high cost by handloading to the same specs and using the same bullet as my carry load. You can buy the projectile for XTP's, Golden Sabers, Gold Dots etc.....for round 19 bucks per 100. Brass, primers and powder are cheap comparatively so I can load 100 rounds for about 25 bucks per 100. Just a thought in case you have a buddy with a reloader.

[Guest bkelm18]

I am just going to observe from here on out and not comment because apparently people on here can't accept fact without getting their feelings hurt.

Pot... meet Kettle. I'm pretty positive people aren't getting worked up over your opinions as much as how you're presenting them. It usually helps to not be a jackass when you're trying to have a conversation.

[Magiccarpetrides]

I don't think most handguns will ever be in a situation where they need to be fired 2,000 rds between cleaning. While I agree that the more rounds you can put through a weapon the more it will build your confidence in said weapon...a 2,000rd test is a bit silly. If you really are so lazy you can't clean your gun at least every 500rds you don't deserve to carry one at all.

I like random ammo tests on firearms because it does show what they will and won't choke on or what they are tuned for. I am also in agreement that while cost prohibitive one should fire as close to 500rds as they can afford if your carrying an auto....if it makes it that long without malfunction and you do a thorough cleaning on it....it will be good to go should the need arise to use it.

My Sig P245 is my typical carry because I do have absolute trust in it and have put it "through its paces".

[R1100R]

WTF is Todd Green. Someone sounds butt hurt to me.

I will decide when I feel comfortable with a handgun for carry. Regardless of how many rounds put through it. Mine and my family's life depends

on it.

On that note I thought it was a good review. I like a 1911 and will defiantly be looking at the Ruger in the next year once the hoopla dies down.

[Capbyrd]

Well, you know that is a good point. With the cost of ammo, it really is hard to run that many round of defense ammo through your gun. I get around the high cost by handloading to the same specs and using the same bullet as my carry load. You can buy the projectile for XTP's, Golden Sabers, Gold Dots etc.....for round 19 bucks per 100. Brass, primers and powder are cheap comparatively so I can load 100 rounds for about 25 bucks per 100. Just a thought in case you have a buddy with a reloader.

My press just got here Thursday.

[East_TN_Patriot]

OK, so I did some more searching on this Todd Green fellow. He apparently runs the website pistol-training.com and I guess he hosts pistol training classes. There's nothing on the website, as far as I can tell, that lists his qualifications. It's also pretty clear that he pushes this multi-thousand round torture testing idea. The home page talks about his Glock endurance test that has over 14K rounds fired through it. So I guess for a gun to be deemed "reliable" you have to shoot it until it's worn out and then say "yup, that was a really reliable gun."

[tnhawk]

I'm sorry, I do not mean to be cynical, but putting 225 rounds through a gun and implying it is reliable is like driving a new car down the driveway and saying it is reliable and runs great. A good test of reliability is the 2,000 rd challenge. 2,000 rds fired through one gun and the gun cannot be cleaned in any way shape or form throughout the test. If it completes this, then it is reliable.

How many thousand miles do you test drive a new car before deciding it is reliable to buy?

I don't think it requires 2000 rounds without cleaning, to determine a gun is reliable.

[dats82]

Like Magic said, I think the idea of running 2000 rds through something without cleaning in order to deem it reliable is just plain ludicrous. I have never fired 2000 rds through anything without cleaning it, and if I did and it failed, I would probably blame my dumbass for not cleaning it and maintaining like I have always been taught. Who gives a damn if you can run thousands of rounds through it without failure? I am never going to be in a situation where I will have to do that. I don't even own 2000 rds for my carry gun. I would absolutely trust the above review over some dude that just says, "Yep, 2000 rds, it's good to go now!"

[mikegideon]

Check the linkback, folks...

You have to check this S*** out!

[Guest bkelm18]

Check the linkback, folks...

You have to check this S*** out!

What a child. How he manages to function in society is beyond me.

[DaveTN]

Also, if you think Todd Green is just some idiot on the internet you have no business commenting on firearms ever.

I have no idea who Todd Green is. How does that impact my 40 years of firearms experience?

[mikegideon]

I have no idea who Todd Green is. How does that impact my 40 years of firearms experience?

Doesn't look good for you (or me). I don't know who he is either. How does it feel to find out you've been doing it wrong for 40 years? Kinda bums me out

[DaveTN]

Doesn't look good for you (or me). I don't know who he is either. How does it feel to find out you've been doing it wrong for 40 years? Kinda bums me out

I remember when some of the "experts" we have now were new on here and asking questions because they barely knew which end of the barrel the bullet came out.

Now we don’t chit.

[DaveTN]

Get a High Point. They are awesome guns. Made in America too. I once heard a guy put 200 rounds through one.

You get all butt hurt in this thread so you are going to go into that ladies thread and take a dump? Grow up.

[johnnychimpo]

I had confidence in my handguns reliability before I fired 2K rds through it. Unforeseen problems caused by ammunition, magazines & the conditions it's operating in are the reason I train to clear malfunctions.

[mikegideon]

I had confidence in my handguns reliability before I fired 2K rds through it. Unforeseen problems caused by ammunition, magazines & the conditions it's operating in are the reason I train to clear malfunctions.

Yep. You just never know for sure.

[mikegideon]

You get all butt hurt in this thread so you are going to go into that ladies thread and take a dump? Grow up.

... and then start a butt hurt thread to boot.

[Links2k]

I am familiar with Todd from the M&P forums. From what I have read he knows his stuff and is a good instructor. I also have a holster that a guy designed for him (means nothing in this thread...I know) . I have no gripes with his methods. Training is good.

We must remember to choose what works best for us. For some its a few boxes of ammo and a cleaning and for others its a three week commando course in the boonies that cost $5000.

I like to use new guns in training classes where you get to check its' fuction and shoot the hell out of it. This is where my love for glocks started (I was always a S&W fan).

The wrong thing to do is on someones 40 years of experience because it's not what another instructor does. Both have their places.

[tnhawk]

I'm sorry, I do not mean to be cynical, but putting 225 rounds through a gun and implying it is reliable is like driving a new car down the driveway and saying it is reliable and runs great. A good test of reliability is the 2,000 rd challenge. 2,000 rds fired through one gun and the gun cannot be cleaned in any way shape or form throughout the test. If it completes this, then it is reliable.

Wilson Combat recommends firing 300-500 rounds before cleaning a new WC pistol, followed by cleaning every 500 rounds afterward. I'll trust that Bill Wilson and his gunsmiths are qualified to recommend this.

Edited May 30, 2011 by tnhawk

[I_Like_Pie]

Check the linkback, folks...

You have to check this S*** out!

Heck....just check out the posts made here. All negative and all condescending.

[mikegideon]

If you read the thread over there, they all seem to be pretty impressed with themselves. I guess that's the reason for the condescending attitude from 10mm. Guess he's runnin' with the big dogs now. i was in awe just reading their crap.

[East_TN_Patriot]

Check the linkback, folks...

You have to check this S*** out!

What. A. Douche.

On the up side, some folks on that forum have a bit of common sense and are telling this guy to tone it down and noting he is violating their forum rules by being a drama queen. However, my favorite quote over there is this:

I think part of the **** storm might have to do with the source - it is the same high caliber gunsmith that chastised Kimber for using MIM Frames and Barrels, and would not deviate from his claim (even after MANY smiths with far more experience tried to set him straight). Not the best source if you ask me.

He has many fan boys that I don't think know any better than to lap up his slop - good on you

Pot calling the kettle black if you ask me. Perhaps we can reword this: "Todd Green has many fan boys that I don't think know any better than to lap up his slop."

Like I posted earlier, I didn't see anything on the guy's website that lists his credentials. For all I know, he attended the Evelyn Woodhead Pistol Instructor School. I do know that I was a Florida Department of Law Enforcement certified police firearms instructor, I've never seen or heard of Todd Green, and even if he does know his stuff, it's only one person's opinion and he sure isn't the god of defensive firearms use.

Edited May 30, 2011 by East_TN_Patriot

[willis68]

Well Gentlemen, it appears that our friend 10mm4me may be the same ass clown from Tennessee that has ripped off several people on knife forums that I frequent. His age and location as well as user name are all the same he claims to be a knife dealer with over 500k worth of merchandise that made several trades with people and never delivered on his end