16" vs 18" vs 20"

[Jon_L]

I was planning on going with the same setup for my next build, kickstand. Only I was opting for the 16" threaded barrel so I could attach a QD flash hider for future suppressors.

[poak]

I hear RLGS's on 16-inchers aren't very dependable.

Most "Dissipator" setups do not have rifle-length gas systems. Most have a carbine length gas system with a shaved gas block which is fully shrouded by the full length hand guards. The A2 sight does not act as a gas block and is in place for the benefit of a longer sight radius only. Like so:

[Guest kickstand]

I was planning on going with the same setup for my next build, kickstand. Only I was opting for the 16" threaded barrel so I could attach a QD flash hider for future suppressors.

Yeah, I like the versatility as well. That's what I would do if I wasn't going the NFA route, I run a 10.5"

[RWF]

wow had not looked at the thread, i was sure it would be all blood and guts, with a question like that. good job guys.

for hunting and some target shooting. i would go with a 1 x 7 or 8. so you can shoot the heavier bullets better. 69, 75, and 77. i have not had a problem taking deer with the black hills 60 grain nolser. but when those are gone i plan to change to the 70 all copper barnes loaded by SSA and others. this should be a long bullet, with better stopping power. the nolsers does a good job killing but they usely go 20-30 yards. and with a scope and 75 grain PPU from the bench i have broke clays at 400yards. i am a big fan of the 16" mid lengh. stay away from tact latches i you plan on hunting with it they catch on anything. and a smooth tube is lighter and you can still mount a rail if wanted or needed.

good luck.

Edited May 27, 2011 by RWF

[Jon_L]

Most "Dissipator" setups do not have rifle-length gas systems. Most have a carbine length gas system with a shaved gas block which is fully shrouded by the full length hand guards. The A2 sight does not act as a gas block and is in place for the benefit of a longer sight radius only. Like so:*snip

[/QUOTE]

Wow, I did not know that. Now I want a Dissapator

ETA: not sure why that quote isn't working...

Yeah, I like the versatility as well. That's what I would do if I wasn't going the NFA route, I run a 10.5"

*Thumb up* I wouldn't mind going 10.5". I have the paperwork and such, just haven't had the (money) chance

[Dolomite_supafly]

Ok here are some things to consider.

Whatever you do do not get a pinned flash hider, at least not for your first gun. The reason is if you decide to change anything on the upper you will have to get it machined off and this adds $75-$100 to the cost of having anything done. A new gas block or a new sight will require it. A new set of free float rails or a free float tube require it. I have known dozens of people who want exactly what the soldiers are carrying only to realize it isn't all that great. Funny how pinned flash hiders were the scourge during the ban years yet it is embraced now. It all comes full circle I guess.

Next get the longest barrel that you can use comfortably because velocity is your friend in every possible scenario. If you plan on using it to hunt and end up carrying it most of the time while stalking an opportunity get a 16" barrel. If your hunting is more of a short hike to a stationary postition get a 18"-20" barrel. Then there is the profiles. A heavy 16" barrel is going to weight roughly the same as a 18" or even a 20" barrel with a thinner profile. With a thinner profile you are not likely going to shoot it enough during hunting to degrade the accuracy enough to warrant a heavy varmint barrel. Now if you plan on using it for prairie dog hunting, where shooting can be a bit fast and furious, by all means get a heavy profile but for most hunting situations around here it is not needed. Or if it will be a bench gun then get a heavy barrel as well as a 24" barrel because you won't be likely carrying much farther than to your car and back.

Chrome or not? I would say get a chrome barrel or a SS barrel for the corrosion resistance. The SS barrel will be, in theory, more accurate than a chromed lined barrel. But as everyone knows each barrel is different. If you plan on doing A LOT of shooting definitely get a chrome lined but if you are like most and the gun will likely never see 1,000 rounds in its lifetime get a SS. I have a SS barrel that has thousands of 223 rounds through it without issue. And over 15,000 rounds of 22 lr throguh it during CQB practice drills. Another advantage of a SS barrel is you can have chamber work done or the barrel shortened while with the chrome lined you are pretty much stuck because the chrome will flake off as the slightest bit of work at either end.

And finally twist, you made the same decision I would have made. A 9 twist is going to do everything you could possilbly want it to do. I shoot 69 grain bullets out of mine all the time. It is the most accurate bullet I have tried so far. I have also shot a lot of 40 grain V-Max bullets with no ill affects. And if I decide to shoot 62 grain surplus I will not be over stabilizing those which will let them tumble easier. A tumbling bullet has more surface area than one that doesn't. Also, if the bullet is a SP or even a HP unless it disrupts the bullet that tumbles will have more surface area. And it is this surface area that causes damage and hit vitals or even causes the bullet to disrupt and act like a HP. Add the extra velocity from the longer barrel and you can have HP type performance from a FMJ bullet because the bullet will tumble, fall apart and use all its energy in the target doing damage. Any bullet or fragment that exits the target is wasted energy.

Just a few of my opinions. But just like those body parts I am sure someone will think mine stinks.

Dolomite

[Dolomite_supafly]

Double tap.

[JoeBobOutfitters]

I wouldn't get a pinned flash hider as noted unless you're REALLLLLLY certain you'll never want to change muzzle attachments, or handguards, or....

Spike's Tactical Mid Length BAR Uppers

These are our most popular uppers, and we have a couple leftover from our last shipment that arrived just the other day. More geared towards the tactical crowd obviously.

While not bad uppers, JSE's are definitely on the cheaper end on the quality scale. One of the employees here built one a few years back off one of their basic carbine uppers and it has held up well, but doesn't have any sort of high round count. Maybe 500 rounds through it on the high end.

I would go with a 16-18" in 223 Wylde or 5.56. They'll do everything you need most likely. 20" gets to be a bit long at times, IMO.

We just started carrying these uppers from Kies Firearms-18" 223 Wylde Uppers w/ linear comp. They are more geared towards our "hunter" market, especially coyote, hog, etc.

They have a nano ceramic coated bores and 12 deep flutes under the handguard which cuts down on the weight. Pretty slick setups!

[Jon_L]

Let me ask a quick question; is there a chance of an unpinned flash hider coming unscrewed during a match, for lack of a better instance?

[Guest GunTroll]

Let me ask a quick question; is there a chance of an unpinned flash hider coming unscrewed during a match, for lack of a better instance?

You better hope not!

[Guest kickstand]

Let me ask a quick question; is there a chance of an unpinned flash hider coming unscrewed during a match, for lack of a better instance?

Not if its installed correctly, which is very easy. Hand tighten against the crush washer, then wrench tighten it to proper orientation. Pinning is strictly a legal issue, as the Nazi gun laws consider it "permanent".

[Jon_L]

Appreciate it.

[Guest adamoxtwo]

So here is what i believe I am going to go with. Not for anything more then I have to buy two of them (one for me and one for the misses) and I have to stay within my budget.

16" BD 1x9 5.56 Chrome Moly GB Carbine Upper

Item Number: UK16BD4M9GB Carbine Handguard: YHM Carbine Diamond Free Float 4 Rail

Bolt Carrier Assembly: DPMS TitaniumGas Blocks: YHM 1 Rail

I have no clue (other then calling Tuesday) how to tell if it's a pinned flash hider. Actually I was given a PWS FSC556 Compensator (FSC556 - PWS Muzzle Devices - PWS) as a gift and will ask that they leave the off flash hider.

I'm just looking for something to have a little fun with and shoot some deer in the head that's all. If the rifle will be that accurate at 100-200 yards I'm ok with it being a less expensive not as tactically sound. With everything written I would like a longer barrel and may possibly purchase a second upper to play with (perhaps a 6.5 or 6.8) I don't anticipate on changing a whole bunch when I get it (even though it's like dress up for men). In the future I will consider building another AR but next time I'm thinking about an AR-10. Everyone needs a nice .308.

You guys are awesome on here. I really appreciate the feedback from everyone.

[Dolomite_supafly]

If that doesn't come with the BCG there is a much, much better option for the same amount, actually probably a bit less overall.

I have recommended these to several people and they are all very happy with them.

Stag Arms

Dolomite

Yours doesn't have chrome lined bores while the stag does.

[Guest adamoxtwo]

The Base price for the upper is $375 and that comes with everything complete. and I also believe it has the Chrome Lining in the barrel. Atleast that's what it apprears to me "M4 16" 1x9 4150 Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel, 5.56 chambered, air gauged, Bull Dog barrel with M4 profile." but I could be wrong. I will have to check with them. Also, for $555 that includes a DPMS Titanium BCG, UTG Rails (I know they aren't the best but good on a budget), and the YH 1 rail Gas Block . Overall it's a fair Upper I think.

[Dolomite_supafly]

The Base price for the upper is $375 and that comes with everything complete. and I also believe it has the Chrome Lining in the barrel. Atleast that's what it apprears to me "M4 16" 1x9 4150 Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel, 5.56 chambered, air gauged, Bull Dog barrel with M4 profile." but I could be wrong. I will have to check with them. Also, for $555 that includes a DPMS Titanium BCG, UTG Rails (I know they aren't the best but good on a budget), and the YH 1 rail Gas Block . Overall it's a fair Upper I think.

M4 is just the ouside profile of the barrel. 4150 Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel is only the material the barrel is made of. 5.56 chambered is just the chamber dimensions. Air gauged is just a way of measuring the bore diameter and doesn't assure quality.

I can guarantee their barrel is not chrome lined. If it is PM me your address and I'll send you what you need for a better than factory trigger on your build. I'll send it free of charge, no qustions asked and on my dime.

From experience I would pass on the titanium BCG. They are not needed and are nothing more than "bling". If I was going to get a coated BCG it would be a chromed one before a titanium. Chrome is more resistant as well as slicker than Ti. Personally I like a phosphated one as the phosphate coating holds oil better than anything else. I would take the extra money you are going to spend on the Ti and get a bolt that has been shot peened for hardness.

I like and use UTG rails on a few of my guns. For the money you can't beat them. I have had a set on my wife's 9mm for the last 5 years and through 7,000+ rounds. It is the one gun that gets used and abused and the UTG quadrails have held up. Another gun had them on for 15,000+ rimfire rounds. It was my training gun when I was home from my trips and it was also a used and abused gun and the UTG's never failed. As a matter of fact when I took them off I gave them to a friend who also used and abused them on his gun for a while before he returned them. They are still as good as new despite some scratches.

I am not trying to burst your bubble but I just trying to get you as a new AR builder/buyer from making some mistakes. You do not need to spend a ton to get a quality gun but there are some things that are not needed. $555 seems like a lot for what you are getting. In the end it is your money but I would definitely do things a little differently.

Dolomite

[Guest adamoxtwo]

I appreciate the feedback. The only reason I was going with the Titanium is this. Since JSE is not a "top teir" Upper I wanted to make sure that the BCG was quality. I have read a lot of reviews and I have not read anything bad about them and have heard very positive feedback in reference to them. And yes there is a little Bling factor involved. I have the first Rifle of a limited Production and I did want to dress it up a little bit. My wife is getting the chrome option for $35 more and I could follow suit, but I like the look. I'm guilty.....However, I will check on that barrel.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Whether it is chrome lined or not PM me your address I'll send you the stuff for your trigger that I was talking about.

Dolomite

[Jon_L]

How many people fancy these blemished uppers from BCM?

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Upper-Receiver-Assembly-M4-Flat-Top-demo-p/flat%20top%20-upper%20-m4%20demo.htm

[JoeBobOutfitters]

If you are wanting an "upgraded" BCG the Spike's Tactical Nickel Boron BCG is our best selling BCG even with the cost. They are self-lubricating (similar to or made by Fail Zero) and individually HPT and MPI tested. I don't know if the DPMS BCG's are, honestly.

[Dolomite_supafly]

If you are wanting an "upgraded" BCG the Spike's Tactical Nickel Boron BCG is our best selling BCG even with the cost. They are self-lubricating (similar to or made by Fail Zero) and individually HPT and MPI tested. I don't know if the DPMS BCG's are, honestly.

They are not. The best DPMS does is batch test.

Dolomite

[JeffL]

Don't go trying to headshot any deer. A 62gr Corbon DPX to the vitals will drop a whitetail just fine.

[Guest Burgan]

You won't see a difference in accuracy between the 16" and the 18". But you will see a difference in the 16" vs the 20".

The true military issue M4 does pretty well at 200yds but I'm not a fan.

[JoeBobOutfitters]

They are not. The best DPMS does is batch test.

Dolomite

Good to know. Most "commercial" AR15's generally don't.

You won't see a difference in accuracy between the 16" and the 18". But you will see a difference in the 16" vs the 20".

The true military issue M4 does pretty well at 200yds but I'm not a fan.

Velocity is barrel length dependent, but accuracy is not. Barrel profile/free floating WILL help accuracy. I would personally rather have a ~heavy match 16-18" barrel for a stiffer heavier profile, shorter barrel. Obviously there are more or less accurate barrels within each barrel profile depending on chamber specs and QC.

Edited May 30, 2011 by JoeBobOutfitters

[Dolomite_supafly]

You won't see a difference in accuracy between the 16" and the 18". But you will see a difference in the 16" vs the 20".

The true military issue M4 does pretty well at 200yds but I'm not a fan.

Velocity is only thing you gain by going with anything over a 16". Barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy unless you are using irons. With irons you have a longer sight radius. With a shorter barrel harmonics are less making the barrel more accurate over a wider range of ammunition. With that being said I would still go with the longest barrel that can comfortably use. And as always every barrel is different so it is possible to have a thin barrel that shoots better than a heavy and vice versa.

Dolomite

Dolomite