Chrome or non-chrome lined barrels?

[Guest GunTroll]

I'm building myself an AR. I'll admit that I'm not the biggest fan of the platform. I lean bolt gun for my thrills but figured why not have another AR in my arsenal. I've had several in the past but currently have none. I would like to go with a 16" 1-7 or 1-9 (haven't decided on twist yet exactly) but defiantly 16". I'd say the purpose of this rifle is broad. Small game hunting, target/plinking, defense, and keyboard commando'ing of course.

So my question is what is everyones opinion on chrome vs. non-chrome lined barrels? I'm sure this question has been asked here but I didn't find it.

Edit: its gonna be in 5.56 if that makes a difference to you

[Caster]

A non chromed barrel Might and I say MIGHT edge out a chrome bore for accuracy but it'll be on paper and it'll be a small difference that only bench shooters and the anally retentive care about. On the other hand, the chrome bore, with the same care as the non chrome bore, will be here long after the nonchrome has shot it's last. Plus, all my chrome bores clean up a heckuva lot easier. I don't even break out the brush but every 500 rounds or so. Just a patch and a jag and scrub it down. YMMV but I say chrome all the way.

[Guest Gopher6]

Based on your stated uses, chrome is the way to go. Non-chrome if competition is your game.

[mikegideon]

A non chromed barrel Might and I say MIGHT edge out a chrome bore for accuracy but it'll be on paper and it'll be a small difference that only bench shooters and the anally retentive care about. On the other hand, the chrome bore, with the same care as the non chrome bore, will be here long after the nonchrome has shot it's last. Plus, all my chrome bores clean up a heckuva lot easier. I don't even break out the brush but every 500 rounds or so. Just a patch and a jag and scrub it down. YMMV but I say chrome all the way.

This is it for me too. Easier cleaning and longer life, for a little more money up front. I recently started shooting some Wolf ammo, so chrome was even more important to me.

[Guest BenderBendingRodriguez]

Hey, you do what you can to make back the extra money you spent on chrome.

[mikegideon]

Hey, you do what you can to make back the extra money you spent on chrome.

Not so sure the barrel life doesn't cover it, and then some. Not having to scrub your rifle is a freebie. I paid 35 bucks extra per barrel. How cheap does it need to be?

[Guest GunTroll]

I see that cost seems to be the general consensus. Other folks have said that as well. It defiantly isn't a burden to pay the extra few bucks for the chrome.

But it makes me wonder why a non-chrome barrel is even offered if the accuracy gain isn't huge???

I suppose in the end I'll just go chrome but I thought I would see what other thoughts are out there.

[Warbird]

Others have already stated my opinion on chrome. I'll just stand behind that. Chrome lining is best unless you are a bench rest or competitive long range precision shooter.

As far as twist, the 1/9 will handle the very lightest 223 loads with no probs, but will not handle the heavier bullets well. The 1/7 will handle the heaviest 223 or 556 bullets very well and the medium weights as well. It handles the most often used weights well, but has been known to keyhole the very lightest 223 weights. If the vast majority of what you are doing will be medium to heavy weight bullets, then I'd go with the 1/7.

[JeffsSig]

For most of us shooters either way will be fine.

A chrome lined will be easier to clean.

A chrome lined will have a longer life.

Most Chrome lined will for the most part be less accurate (maybe 1/4in at 200yds) Some are more accurate.

Such as most 1/7s are with a heavier gr bullet 62s and above.

cost is around 30-50$ more

So it is really up to the buyer. As for me I get whatever is available.

[mikegideon]

I see that cost seems to be the general consensus. Other folks have said that as well. It defiantly isn't a burden to pay the extra few bucks for the chrome.

But it makes me wonder why a non-chrome barrel is even offered if the accuracy gain isn't huge???

I suppose in the end I'll just go chrome but I thought I would see what other thoughts are out there.

I bought one without the first time around. Ain't worth the savings to me. My accurate AR has a stainless barrel.

[Kenstaroni]

Get an LWRC upper and benefit from their Ferritic Nitrocarburizing system .

From LWRC:

"The standard M6 barrel features a ferritic salt bath nitro carburized interior and exterior finish. This finishing process is also applied to the barrel extension and gas port. This finishing process is a surface conversion process in place of industrial hard chrome and is therefore inherently free from nodules, flaking, pits, stripping, or anode burrs. The process results in chemical and structural composition changes that can be described as a case hardening to a depth of 0.005” of the alloy leading to increased surface hardness, lower coefficient of friction, enhanced surface lubricity, improved running wear performance, increased sliding wear resistance, enhanced corrosion resistance and heat resistance over industrial hard chrome. Since the process is a surface conversion and does not add material to the internal dimension of the bore, the barrels can be hammer forged on size over a very precise polished rifle mandrel. With hard chrome, the bore must be manufactured oversized or honed and electro-polished to make the interior dimension oversized making room for the chrome plating. This plating is inconsistent which is the reason sniper or target barrels are typically not chromed. Nitrocarburizing has proven superior as a surface finish to phosphating to oxidization when subjected to MIL-STD-810f salt fog/spray testing and is a scratch resistant flat black finish.

In addition the barrel extension and gas port are also surface converted minimizing barrel extension wear, increasing corrosion resistance and limiting gas port erosion. Cross sectional analysis done by HP White Laboratories before and after nitro carburizing proved the surface conversion process does not negatively interfere with the heat treat or temper of the barrel extension. LWRCI contracted HP White to conduct these tests.

The ferritic salt bath nitro carburizing process has been proven by independent testing to be superior to chromium plating both it terms of corrosion resistance and abrasion resistance, lubricity and wear. It has been long adopted by FAMAE of Chile for use in all government small arms, and also by the Polish Military. It has been adopted by Sig Arms for use in their carbines, Glock in their pistol bores and various other large military arms manufacturers with excellent results."

As far as chrome or not, the other posts are leading you in the right direction. I'd get chrome lined for the ease of cleaning. The accuracy will likely be impacted more by the quality of the barrel and type of ammo than whether or not it is chrome lined.

Noveske barrels are sweet too

[1gewehr]

Chrome bores typically last 50-100% longer than standard steel. If you are not worried about .05" differences in your group size, you are better off with chromed bores. I buy chromed bore barrels whenever the cost is less than 50% more than non-chromed. To me it's a no-brainer decision.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Go Chrome or Go Home

;-D

[Guest GunTroll]

Fine I feel pressured and all but I will go chrome . Always thought I would really. Just gathering opinions is all.

[bajabuc]

If you want the truth. the whole truth and nothing but the truth...google it. Wikipedia says the original non chromed "chamber" corroded like mad.

[Guest BungieCord]

If my choices are chrome or no, I vote chromed. However, Kenastroni has a point. SBN is about as indestructible a surface treatment as ever was created for firearms usage. It's only been being applied to rifle barrels in the US for a few years but you've known about it for decades by the trade name Glock uses for it: Tenifer. In the US, it typically is called Melonite or Isonite or Nu-Tride but it's all Tenifer (more or less).

MMI-Trutec used to have a 2-for-$100 introductory SBN offer but unfortunately I think their minimum batch now is $300. Anyway, give 'em a jingle. With the shape the economy's in, who knows what kind of deals they might be cutting?

[R1100R]

Mine is chrome lined and it is a 1/8 twist. Got the best of both. I think my next will be 1/8 with polygonal rifling chrome lined.

[mikegideon]

If you want the truth. the whole truth and nothing but the truth...google it. Wikipedia says the original non chromed "chamber" corroded like mad.

That was corrosive ammo mixed with some jungle spooge.

[dlm37015]

for just plinking and general shooting i would get a 1/12 or 1/14 twist when shooting at anything but paper it works better imo with a 50 or 55 grain bullet .with a 16 inch barrel shooting big bullets you lose alot of bullet speed with loss of bullet speed you lose bullet rpm with a bullet 69 grain or larger you must have lots of rpm over 250,000 or it will not shoot good.i like stainless but have mine coated black on the outside.the ar platform works best with a 55 grain bullet and 1/12 twist barrel

[johnnychimpo]

I like a chrome lined 1-7" with a mid-length gas system in a 16".

[bajabuc]

That was corrosive ammo mixed with some jungle spooge.

USA Army shoots Berdan primers? I didn't know that..Thanks

[mikegideon]

USA Army shoots Berdan primers? I didn't know that..Thanks

I thought you were takling about the original corrosion problems in Viet Nam. I shoot Berdan primers, but they're non corrosive. Besides that, my barrels are chrome lined.

[DaveTN]

Everything is application driven…

I won’t keep any gun long enough to even begin to "shoot out" a barrel.

Non chrome is more accurate. (I don’t know that, but the “experts†seem to be in agreement on it)

It adds cost on the front end that won’t be recovered when I sell it.

So…. No chrome for me.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Re: Twist rate?

I would stay away from a 7 twist barrel. I would go with a 9 twist barrel.

The reason is a 7 twist barrel over stabilizes the bullet preventing it from tumbling on impact. Then you have to rely on bullet design to cause it to disrupt. And with FMJ odds are it will not, especially with the heavier bullets that the 7 twist is supposed to shoot.

9 twist should work well if you plan on shooting anything up to 70 grain bullets. And with that 55 grain FMJ's should disrupt inside of 200 yards. It would also be more likely to tumble. If you only planned on shooting 55 grain bullets I would see if you could get an even slower twist, like a 12 twist. But you will be limited to 55 grain or less. I would advise against it right now because all the surplus coming out right now is 55 grain as well as 62 grain bullets. I do not believe the 12 twist will stabilize the 62 grain bullets well enough for longer ranges, as in past 100 yards. If it did that would be better than perfect but again I don't think they will. The most accurate load in my 9 twist gun is a 69 grain Sierra Match King.

As far as bullets go look for something that is designed to disrupt on impact. Like a soft point bullet or one of the polymer tipped ones like a TAP round. Regardless of twist these bullets are going to come apart upon impact. If you were going to be shooting FMJ I would just shoot the 55 grain or the 62 grain bullets. Don't go any heavier because it slows the velocity down too much and the bullet will not disrupt and may not tumble. Also, these are more common and cheaper than some of the heavier stuff in order to make full use of a 7 twist barrel.

So in the end I would say 9 twist barrel should fill any need you have shooting either 55 grain or 62 grain FMJ's or anything designed to come apart on impact like a TAP or soft point.

Here are some interesting reads on the effectiveness of the 5.56 you have seen before:

Do not hot link this but copy and paste it into a new browser to open it:

http://stevespages.com/pdf/5_56mm_military_info.pdf

This is the penetration based on velocity:

http://stevespages.com/jpg/bestbullet.jpg

If you have any other questions feel free to ask. I am far from the expert on the subject but I consider myself more knowledgable than most.

Dolomite

The military ruined the cartridge by increasing the twist and using heavier bullets. The heavier bullets require the velocity to be reduced this reduces the chance the bullet will disrupt on impact and the increased twist decreases the likelyhood of the bullet tumbling upon impact. Believe it or not but by taking the 5.56 and reducing the velocity to less than 2000 fps it will increase its penetration because the bullet no longer tumbles or disrupts on impact. This is the reason we are hearing of all the problems with it overseas. The military is trying to take a short to medium range caliber and turn it into a long range caliber.

I have persoanlly done a lot of testing on twist rates and how they affect the tumbling of rifle bullets. I have also tested the effectiveness of those same rifle bullets as they tumbled. Most of my testing was done on the edge of the sound barrier so roughly 1050 fps. If I can get a bullet to reliably tumble at less than 1100 fps there should be no problem getting a bullet travelling at 2500+ fps to reliably tumble. It is all in the twist rate.

Dolomite

[mikegideon]

Everything is application driven…

I won’t keep any gun long enough to even begin to "shoot out" a barrel.

Non chrome is more accurate. (I don’t know that, but the “experts” seem to be in agreement on it)

It adds cost on the front end that won’t be recovered when I sell it.

So…. No chrome for me.

I agree that it's appication driven. The accuracy differerence is insignificant in most applications (like using ret dot optics). Personally, my main reason for going with chrome was ease of cleaning, especially since I started shooting Wolf. Even if I do shoot out a barrel, the life isn't a huge deal to ME. Barrels are a small fraction of the ammo cost to wear one out.

Now... I DO keep my rifles pretty clean, and unlike shooting, I consider it a chore. To each his own, but to me, the less scrubbing, the better.