Starbucks pro gun?

[Guest Jon]

It appeared that there was no drama but what it was is they were all frozen with fear. The second you left they all were able to breath a sigh of relief and began to pat each other on their backs while they sung kumbaya. They were celebrating their victory in saving their lives from you, the crazed gunman.

Dolomite

no not hardly. I was great with all smiles and as usual no one ever noticed.

[tnhawk]

and somehow this thread trailed off into a open carry thread.......shocking

Who would have thought that would happen?

[TGO David]

i am all for "meeting up and supporting a local business who allows guns", but given the semi-recent open carry at starbucks compeigns that had been going on, I most certainly would not open carry as a group there. The last thing we want to do is for people at starbucks to get upset, and for starbucks to have to consider posting, b/c none of us want that.

Personally, I would think it be best to do it at a local business, keep conceiled, and send them a letter afterwards thanking them and letting them know why we were there.

This.

[Guest BenderBendingRodriguez]

This is not directed to any one person.

I wanted to post a larger response to something that keeps popping up, but it seemed like a really bad idea after typing it all out. I will just say this: the constant liberal bashing based on the idea that somehow no liberal can stomach the idea of people having guns is ignorant and tiresome. While it may typically be the Democratic rather than Republican rulemakers who attempt to limit gun rights from time to time, this does not filter down to the voting public quite as much as you may think it does.

In my personal experience, the VAST number of gun owners/permit holders that I know typically vote blue. This is true not only in the groups of people I know in Tennessee, but with my friends and acquaintances living in other states, as well. While other people may have different experiences, it should at least be enough to demonstrate that not every "liberal" will piss themself at the mere thought of someone having a gun. IMO, constantly obsessing over it or repeating it ad infinitum just reflects poorly on you.

[strickj]

because, it is. The Starbucks on campus is the worst.

You mean to tell me that there is an above average amount of liberals on a college campus?

You guys crack me up! Starbucks is no different then any other business.

Just because the older "country boys" do not like their coffee does not mean that 100% of their patrons are liberals.

This country boy, along with many others, loves their coffee.

[East_TN_Patriot]

This is not directed to any one person.

I wanted to post a larger response to something that keeps popping up, but it seemed like a really bad idea after typing it all out. I will just say this: the constant liberal bashing based on the idea that somehow no liberal can stomach the idea of people having guns is ignorant and tiresome. While it may typically be the Democratic rather than Republican rulemakers who attempt to limit gun rights from time to time, this does not filter down to the voting public quite as much as you may think it does.

In my personal experience, the VAST number of gun owners/permit holders that I know typically vote blue. This is true not only in the groups of people I know in Tennessee, but with my friends and acquaintances living in other states, as well. While other people may have different experiences, it should at least be enough to demonstrate that not every "liberal" will piss themself at the mere thought of someone having a gun. IMO, constantly obsessing over it or repeating it ad infinitum just reflects poorly on you.

Fair enough, but voting Democrat and being a liberal are two different things.

[Guest BenderBendingRodriguez]

Fair enough, but voting Democrat and being a liberal are two different things.

You're absolutely right. But being a liberal in a way that doesn't automatically equate to voting Democrat should (at least in theory) make it even more likely that the person supports gun rights!

[Guest JeremyD901]

I love how so many people are "pro gun" however don't want to offend liberals by oc. Why would you be so childish to judge someone on how they carry? I oc everywhere i go that the law and business owners allow. It is personally more comfortable then conceal carry to me. I have yet had anyone freak out. Passed numerous leo's they didn't even care or ask for a hcp. So please stop judging people that oc. Not like I'm running around like I'm super cop I'm just an average Joe with a glock on my hip.

[Guest Jon]

I love how so many people are "pro gun" however don't want to offend liberals by oc. Why would you be so childish to judge someone on how they carry? I oc everywhere i go that the law and business owners allow. It is personally more comfortable then conceal carry to me. I have yet had anyone freak out. Passed numerous leo's they didn't even care or ask for a hcp. So please stop judging people that oc. Not like I'm running around like I'm super cop I'm just an average Joe with a glock on my hip.

this.

[Guest JeremyD901]

This??

[Oh Shoot]

This??

Means emphatic agreement with the quoted section.

- OS

[Guest JeremyD901]

I'm still new to this site, guess i have a few things to learn lol. I can honestly say I am very shocked star bucks is not a gun buster though. Wish I knew the logic behind the gun buster signs. Like say a robber is going to see it and say, hmmm well guess I can't rob this place at gun point.

[Guest Overtaker]

What better way to convince Starbucks corporate to change their policy than to have a bunch of people open carry in their stores?

A bunch of people already have OC'd in groups at Starbucks, and the anti's were making lots of noise about Starbucks but they didn't post. It made national news last year. In fact, here is their press release.

[TGO David]

I'm just an average Joe with a glock on my hip.

When you consider what "average" means, this statement is paradoxical.

[DaveTN]

Only on TGO can a carry thread turn into a comparison of 7-11 coffee to Starbucks coffee.

[Raoul]

Only on TGO can a carry thread turn into a comparison of 7-11 coffee to Starbucks coffee.

I personally always OC my coffee.

[East_TN_Patriot]

A bunch of people already have OC'd in groups at Starbucks, and the anti's were making lots of noise about Starbucks but they didn't post. It made national news last year. In fact, here is their press release.

I think the following parts of that Starbucks press release says all we need to know on this idea of en mass OC in their stores:

"The political, policy and legal debates around these issues belong in the legislatures and courts, not in our stores.

At the same time, we have a security protocol for any threatening situation that might occur in our stores. Partners are trained to call law enforcement as situations arise. We will continuously review our procedures to ensure the highest safety guidelines are in place and we will continue to work closely with law enforcement.

As the public debate continues, we are asking all interested parties to refrain from putting Starbucks or our partners into the middle of this divisive issue. As a company, we are extremely sensitive to the issue of gun violence in our society. Our Starbucks family knows all too well the dangers that exist when guns are used irresponsibly and illegally..."

As I said before, there will be no better way to convince Starbucks to "review their procedures" regarding carry in their stores than to try and make a political statement by intentionally organizing groups of people to show up at the local coffee shop openly carrying guns on their hip. All it will take is one employee who hates guns and either doesn't know about the corporate policy or articulates a complaint that she felt threatened, then the cops show up, the issue is blown all out of proportion, and the company changes their position.

If you want to open carry, fine. I generally think it is a bad idea, and thought it was a generally bad idea when I was a cop. I never open carried as a cop unless I was in uniform or on a plain clothes assignment where I had my badge and ID clearly displayed. Open carry leads to far too much potential to draw attention to yourself and I firmly believe it's a much better idea to lay low and fly under the radar. That said, if you do choose to open carry, you have to know that using open carry as a tool to protest and make a statement is a very very bad idea, because the desire to make a political statement usually includes some flagrant actions to draw attention to yourself and this makes people more likely to challenge you in some way. Open carry in protest is not going to win anyone over. I'm sure of that.

[Guest pfries]

I personally always OC my coffee.

Yeah I can't find an IWB for my thermos..... I guess I should have bought a more popular model

[Guest kirkosaurus]

If you want to open carry, fine. I generally think it is a bad idea, and thought it was a generally bad idea when I was a cop. I never open carried as a cop unless I was in uniform or on a plain clothes assignment where I had my badge and ID clearly displayed. Open carry leads to far too much potential to draw attention to yourself and I firmly believe it's a much better idea to lay low and fly under the radar.

My question to you is, departmental rules aside, why do you think you as a police officer and all other police officers open carry while in uniform? Why don't they conceal carry? The answer to that question can be applied to everyone else who is legal to carry. I'll go ahead and answer it for you. It's because there is a much greater tactical advantage to OC.

I think drawing attention to yourself with a big ole gun on your hip is a good thing. It makes any bad guys in the area think twice about committing their crime. If every area had someone with a big ole gun on on their hip the crime rate would be drastically lower.

It still baffles me as to why police officers are so against open carry. You'd think they'd be the biggest proponents of it since they would know someone is armed rather than having to guess. Plus with crime lowered it would make their job a lot easier.

That said, if you do choose to open carry, you have to know that using open carry as a tool to protest and make a statement is a very very bad idea, because the desire to make a political statement usually includes some flagrant actions to draw attention to yourself and this makes people more likely to challenge you in some way. Open carry in protest is not going to win anyone over. I'm sure of that.

I agree, it should not be used as a protest tool. You should just go about your normal business and see how nothing negative happens 99.9% of the time despite all the fear mongering of anti-OC people. In my own experience it makes everyone more pleasant, including myself.

[Erik88]

I open carried all day today while hiking. Not a single person said a word to me about it. Everyone I talked to along the way smiled and had conversation with me. I didn't do it to protest or make a political statement. I did it because OC is far more comfortable to me than my concealed carry holsters.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I open carried all day today while hiking. Not a single person said a word to me about it. Everyone I talked to along the way smiled and had conversation with me. I didn't do it to protest or make a political statement. I did it because OC is far more comfortable to me than my concealed carry holsters.

Where were you hiking?

Dolomite

[Erik88]

Where were you hiking?

Dolomite

Big South Fork. I even passed some people who I think were from NYC and they were friendly and talkative. Oh and to give you an idea of just how absent minded people are, my GF's cousin who went hiking with us never even noticed my gun until an hour into the hike when her husband mentioned it. Completely oblivious, this is why I feel like the majority of the time I OC most people don't even notice.

[Erik88]

I agree, it should not be used as a protest tool. You should just go about your normal business and see how nothing negative happens 99.9% of the time despite all the fear mongering of anti-OC people. In my own experience it makes everyone more pleasant, including myself.

I completely agree with this. I don't understand the guys who walk around with tape recorders in their pockets. But this thread is way off topic now and I'm making it worse.

Continue on.

[East_TN_Patriot]

My question to you is, departmental rules aside, why do you think you as a police officer and all other police officers open carry while in uniform? Why don't they conceal carry? The answer to that question can be applied to everyone else who is legal to carry. I'll go ahead and answer it for you. It's because there is a much greater tactical advantage to OC.

When in uniform, I totally agree. I never said that concealed carry was tactically better than open carry as far as ease of access to the weapon. However, having a shirt over your belt rig or carrying an easily accessible pocket holster is only slightly more inconvenient than open carry, especially if you consciously practice accessing and drawing your firearm from one of these concealed locations.

I think drawing attention to yourself with a big ole gun on your hip is a good thing. It makes any bad guys in the area think twice about committing their crime. If every area had someone with a big ole gun on on their hip the crime rate would be drastically lower.

It still baffles me as to why police officers are so against open carry. You'd think they'd be the biggest proponents of it since they would know someone is armed rather than having to guess. Plus with crime lowered it would make their job a lot easier.

When it comes to bad guys, I can see it being a good thing and a bad thing. As far as deterrence, I can buy that argument, but I can also see it as making yourself a target. I also can see the problem being that if open carry were the norm, bad guys would just look for people with guns and if they didn't see any guns, then it's fair game. Concealed carry is a far better deterrent overall IMHO because it leaves the bad guys guessing. Maintaining vigilance, displaying confidence, and being wise about your surroundings and your company is far more effective towards not becoming a victim than open carry.

I am not a cop any longer, but most cops are against open carry, not because they think that people who would carry are bad folks, but because they know that keeping a very low profile is generally the best way to live tactically when you don't have a radio and backup nearby. Also, since concealed carry is the preferred norm for society, I'm sure that some officers see open carry as a sign of someone who is showboating and/or looking for a confrontation. Not saying it's necessarily a correct stereotype, but it does exist, and even applies to sworn officers who open carry off-duty. In fact, both of my previous departments (one in KY the other in FL) both prohibited open carry when not engaged in official duty-related activity due to the possible problems associated with public perceptions of open carry.

The crime reduction issue is moot in my book since violent crime has been on the decline for over 30 years and has nothing to do with open carry by civilians.

I agree, it should not be used as a protest tool. You should just go about your normal business and see how nothing negative happens 99.9% of the time despite all the fear mongering of anti-OC people. In my own experience it makes everyone more pleasant, including myself.

This is really the bulk of my argument. I personally don't have any particular issue with open carry other than the fact that there are too many stupid people in society and it's only a matter of time before some idiot makes an issue of it, the cops show up, and then you end up with some cop that wants to make an example out of you. Do I wish society were more open to OC? Sure. Maybe it's better where you are because I am in Knoxville and I can see other parts of the state being much more open-minded regarding open carry. Sometimes I really feel like strapping my 1911 on just for the hell of it, but I REALLY don't like the folks who want to do it to make a political statement.

[Guest Jon]

I honestly think HCP holders that are so against OC make a bigger deal out of it then the general public. I have yet to have a bad experience OC'ing. Even at Starbucks which I just returned from