Unconstitutional "War" In Libya

[strickj]

Anyone care to discus the President's war in Libya?

Did he ever get congressional approval for it? I don't know if congress ever approved the action and it just wasn't aired on the news or what.

This was a hot-topic (mainly on Fox...imagine that) for many, including Judge Napolitano and Ron Paul, but as the weeks have passed, it has become a non-issue, it seems. I haven't even seen anything on Fox about it lately.

(This thread, although intended to be a serious discussion, is being started as an experiment to see if forum members care more about this war then that kid being expelled from his prom)

[Mike.357]

no more the big O's war than whats going on in Persia is King George's war.

isn't it the United Nations war?

And I have little doubt that more people worry about that idiot teenager and the prom than whats going on in Libya. Seems no one but me minds $4 a gallon gasoline either.

[East_TN_Patriot]

We need to stop being the world's policeman and let these other nations deal with their own problems. Libya is no major threat to the US. If Libyan people want their leader gone, let them do it. Mike.357 is correct; this is a UN operation and as one of the leading members of the organization, we are involved. I think in this case, Congress would actually have to vote to keep us out of the conflict. If memory serves me, Congress has to approve participation in these sorts of things, but I very well could be mistaken.

And I really have no clue what this "prom" thing is about. Guess I need to do some snooping around...

[greenego]

History question.

What was the last time US declared war. Answer 1942.

No matter how right or wrong all the wars have been since then, the President did not ask for a decoration of war and Congress has not granted one. All of our "police actions" have taken taken toll. We need to get back to the Constitution.

[Guest HvyMtl]

+1 greenego.

Actually, the "war" or "Nato Action" or "policing action" in Libya is not the reason for $4 gasoline. It is the refineries. Seems they have purposely cut production, or sent excess production over seas, artificially inflating the price. Oil prices are down. US and world consumption are down.

[1gewehr]

According to the War Powers Act, Obama had 60 days to get a declaration of war or remove US involvement. The 60 days is up tomorrow 5/20. Obama is trying to say that it is not a 'US war', but being waged by NATO. But the War Powers Act prohibits US military involvement after 60 days without congressional approval. The media is keeping a low profile as this will only further embarrass their socialist messiah. The Republicans are unlikely to make waves on this as they want to keep teh attention on the budget.

[Caster]

We need to stop being the world's policeman and let these other nations deal with their own problems. Libya is no major threat to the US. If Libyan people want their leader gone, let them do it.

Exactly Right. I am a staunch supporter of Israel, now and forever. BUT, we need to come home and deal with our own problems. Think of what we could get straightened out in the next 10 years if we told the world to go to ____ , stiffened our perimeter defenses 10 fold, and sent every one of our marines to the southern border to "discuss" this little drug lord problem. Basically just say, "Hey world, we will buy and sell goods with you for as long as it behooves us, but all your other problems are just that. YOUR PROBLEMS!"

Why is this so wrong? So difficult? Why can't our charity start here at home?

Edited May 19, 2011 by Caster

[strickj]

Well, it's the UN's war... but I think everyone knows what I mean. Obama didn't have to get involved.

History question.

What was the last time US declared war. Answer 1942.

No matter how right or wrong all the wars have been since then, the President did not ask for a decoration of war and Congress has not granted one. All of our "police actions" have taken taken toll. We need to get back to the Constitution.

A DoW is a formal form from congress. Only a few have ever been been issued.

Out of all of the conflicts we've had, the president has always asked for congressional approval. Even if after the the military action began (when congress is out of session).

The Constitution only gives the president the power if being "chief and commander".

It gives 100% of the power to activate the military to congress.

According to the War Powers Act, Obama had 60 days to get a declaration of war or remove US involvement. The 60 days is up tomorrow 5/20. Obama is trying to say that it is not a 'US war', but being waged by NATO. But the War Powers Act prohibits US military involvement after 60 days without congressional approval. The media is keeping a low profile as this will only further embarrass their socialist messiah. The Republicans are unlikely to make waves on this as they want to keep teh attention on the budget.

This action does not fall under the WPA.

HOW WAR POWERS ACT WORKS - NYTimes.com

[East_TN_Patriot]

Republican senators press president on War Powers deadline – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

[Glenn]

Exactly Right. I am a staunch supporter of Israel, now and forever. BUT, we need to come home and deal with our own problems. Think of what we could get straightened out in the next 10 years if we told the world to go to ____ , stiffened our perimeter defenses 10 fold, and sent every one of our marines to the southern border to "discuss" this little drug lord problem. Basically just say, "Hey world, we will buy and sell goods with you for as long as it behooves us, but all your other problems are just that. YOUR PROBLEMS!"

Why is this so wrong? So difficult? Why can't our charity start here at home?

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! My thoughts exactly.

Glenn

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Helping Libya get rid of the dictator doesn't help Israel one bit. We shouldn't be there in the first place.

The only people benefitting from this action is the muslim brotherhood. no one else. This will cause

the people of Libya to be ruled by muslim radicals and further the Caliphate, which is against us "non

believers".

[1gewehr]

This action does not fall under the WPA.

HOW WAR POWERS ACT WORKS - NYTimes.com

How so? US troops (aircraft, etc) are in action in Libya. Congress has not approved it. Seems pretty clear to me.

[strickj]

How so? US troops (aircraft, etc) are in action in Libya. Congress has not approved it. Seems pretty clear to me.

There is no imminent threat to the US in Libya so therefore the 60 day clause in the WPA does not cover the action without congressional approval.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2EEyxIzq8M

[greenego]

There is no imminent threat to the US in Libya so therefore the 60 day clause in the WPA does not cover the action without congressional approval.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2EEyxIzq8M

So there is no justification for what Obama is doing in Libya.

[Guest HvyMtl]

"There is no imminent threat to the US in Libya so therefore the 60 day clause in the WPA does not cover the action without congressional approval."

There was no imminent threat to the US in Iraq, ever. Yet, how long was that no fly zone, and yet, we went in twice... Once to liberate an ally, the next to complete what a President's father did not... Most with U.N. approval.

War seems to be the word Politicians fear. "Policing Action" or "U.N. backed Resolution" etc. seems far more palatable.

Quadaffi (however it is spelled) deserved to be removed back in the Reagan era. We did not do it then, we probably should not try now.

He is more Europe's problem than ours. (I am glad that France, GB, Italy, and other European nations are finally figuring out they need to take care of their own problems. I guess it took the embarrassment Bosnia was to get their attention.)

We do need to pull back from being the World Cop. It is bankrupting us.

And the "Open Wallet" diplomacy we have done since the start of the cold war, needs to stop. Now. No longer should we pay for Honduras' army, or Mexico's Federalis, or any arab nation's "friendship" like O is proposing now. This era of diplomacy is no longer needed. We won the cold war...

[Daniel]

Exactly Right. I am a staunch supporter of Israel, now and forever. BUT, we need to come home and deal with our own problems. Think of what we could get straightened out in the next 10 years if we told the world to go to ____ , stiffened our perimeter defenses 10 fold, and sent every one of our marines to the southern border to "discuss" this little drug lord problem. Basically just say, "Hey world, we will buy and sell goods with you for as long as it behooves us, but all your other problems are just that. YOUR PROBLEMS!"

Why is this so wrong? So difficult? Why can't our charity start here at home?

I have asked before but I will say again that I do not understand why everyone loves Israel regardless of what they do.

The other question is why does everyone have a hard on for Marines? The Marines would not be the best choice as a border defender.

The United States Marine Corps (USMC) is a branch of the United States Armed Forces responsible for providing power projection from the sea,[7] using the mobility of the United States Navy to deliver combined-arms task forces rapidly

[greenego]

I believe Bush did have Congressional approval for the no fly zone and going into Iraq. Obama didn't. Part of the problem is Congress will not standup and exercise their Constitutional powers. They declare war, not the president.

[strickj]

Lawmakers sue President Obama over Libya - Reid J. Epstein - POLITICO.com

"A bipartisan group of House

members announced on Wednesday

that it isfiling a lawsuit charging

that President Obama made an

illegal end-run around Congress

when he approved U.S military

action againstLibya."

[Kenstaroni]

Anyone read the speaker of the house's letter to Obama a couple days ago? It was on MSNBC. I was quite impressed with the Republican position on the issue. I don't consider it a grey area...either you get congressional approval or you keep our boys here. This administration feels that they have some supreme power over the consititution and no matter how pretty they make things sound they are violating thier powers and should be relieved of duty.

If the people give Obama a pass on this one it would just open the flood gates for a constitutional bashing. If he can put this on the UN in order to try to get around the war powers act then what's going to stop them for stating other constitutional violations are legal because they are UN decisions.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Kenstaroni

[Caster]

I have asked before but I will say again that I do not understand why everyone loves Israel regardless of what they do.

The other question is why does everyone have a hard on for Marines? The Marines would not be the best choice as a border defender.

Well that's simple answer for me and I really don't care why others support Israel or don't. I don't have to answer to or for anyone else.

GOD is the same today and forever. He NEVER changes. EVER. Therefore when GOD told Abraham "I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you." I have my divine mandate right then and there. What anyone else chooses to support or not support is their business, not mine. I will go on record as saying I have found there to be a huge difference in US born Jews and Israeli people. The Israeli people will forever get my prayer and support no matter what they do. People who fancy themselves as intellectuals can't fathom this. I could care less about them or what they think. It's not my place to judge them. God never told us to criticize them. He said bless them or I will curse you. That's good enough for me. If someone chooses not to accept that part of the word then they need to reconsider following any of it. We don't get to pick and choose.

Might makes right, every knee will bend, every mouth will confess. The MAN says so. End of story.

Apologies if that's a touch preachy, cause I don't have much use for preachers but the word is law.

[Caster]

.....and in walks the non believers to tell me how foolish, blind and idiotic I am. OR believers of replacement theology to tell me some of their blather. No thanks to all it

[Il Duce]

Agreed 100%

[Worriedman]

Well that's simple answer for me and I really don't care why others support Israel or don't. I don't have to answer to or for anyone else.

GOD is the same today and forever. He NEVER changes. EVER. Therefore when GOD told Abraham "I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you." I have my divine mandate right then and there. What anyone else chooses to support or not support is their business, not mine. I will go on record as saying I have found there to be a huge difference in US born Jews and Israeli people. The Israeli people will forever get my prayer and support no matter what they do. People who fancy themselves as intellectuals can't fathom this. I could care less about them or what they think. It's not my place to judge them. God never told us to criticize them. He said bless them or I will curse you. That's good enough for me. If someone chooses not to accept that part of the word then they need to reconsider following any of it. We don't get to pick and choose.

Might makes right, every knee will bend, every mouth will confess. The MAN says so. End of story.

Apologies if that's a touch preachy, cause I don't have much use for preachers but the word is law.

I agree, and in the end game, each, be it Nation or individual, has to make a choice, for or against Israel.

[Guest lostpass]

.....and in walks the non believers to tell me how foolish, blind and idiotic I am. OR believers of replacement theology to tell me some of their blather. No thanks to all it

hey, believe whatever you wish to believe. But when you won't listen to those who challenge your beliefs you admit, more or less, that you're some kind of super bigot. People that talk to you waste their, and your, time.

Which is a fine and easy way to live, you're right no matter what. Taking away cognition is a comfortable thing but one more at home in third world countries than the US.

I'm not saying your not right but I will say that blind belief is the tool of the democrats and islamists. And nazis and communists. Plus anyone who doesn't agree with me. Vote Puppies!

[gregintenn]

Daniel, I believe Caster answered you as straighforward and concise as your question could be answered.