Gun City Incident

[Guest friesepferd]

yep. I don't know the guy and I wont go into specifically bashing him, but I do find his email to actually be pretty irritating.

People say accidents happen, often when referring to guns. The truth is, mistakes happen.

It simply isnt possible to shoot anyone if you are obeying the rules of gun safety (heck, even if you are obeying ANY of the rules of gun safety).

People do of course, make mistakes. Even people who know gun safety and practice it regularly might make a mistake sometimes, but they need to admit it as that.

Given his description of what happened and my knowledge of guns, I can't conclude anything other than the guy pulled the trigger while the gun was pointed at something it shouldnt have been (or at least something passed in front of the muzzle that shouldnt have).

Its unfortunate that he got hurt. I hope he heals up soon, and I very much hope that he learns a lesson.

[Guest Oaklands]

Do farts have lumps? Ooops, I just figured it out.

[bigwakes]

Hate to see a gun store close, but how much can one store take before they call it quits?

[mikegideon]

Do farts have lumps? Ooops, I just figured it out.

No. That's something else. You need to practice your test procedure.

[dlm37015]

well buford aside gun city back when ken owned it and mr hickerson ran and joe danials was the gunsmith.it was the best place in middle tn to buy a gun but like everything else if you let it go it will fall apart.

[Fourtyfive]

Maybe we should be bashing the idiot that brought in the loaded gun .......

[BlackHawk93]

He's lucky, along with everyone else in that room, that he didn't hit a student along with his pinky.

[BigPoppa]

Maybe we should be bashing the idiot that brought in the loaded gun .......

I'm not "bashing" anyone, but it is ultimately the instructor's duty to manage that classroom or training environment. The instructor does not have the luxury to assume that students have either understood or obeyed pre-arrival directions.

[Jasongar8]

He or one of his staff should have checked EVERY gun that a student brought in with them. Period. The first thing I ask a student when they come take a class where I work, "do you have a gun on you? If so I need to check it. (I check the gun) You can either leave it behind the counter or you can lock it up in your car. But you won't need it in the class room".

[Dolomite_supafly]

I am going with the pulling the trigger theory.

The reason is it doesn't take much to get a gun out of battery. And if out of battery the gun shouldn't fire. Even if it did fire out of battery the barrel would have moved down and out of the way of the firing pin before the slide moved very far. Takes very little to get to a point where the primer will not be struck.

I bet he went to clear it but pulled the trigger when getting a good grip on the gun. The only way you could convince me otherwise is a scanned copy of the letter from the gun's maker stating there was a problem with the gun.

Dolomite

[TN-popo]

Did the student make a mistake? Looks like it.

However, ultimately, gun safety lies with the current handler of the gun.

Also, unless seriously defective (highly doubtful), that pistol is not going to fire unless the trigger is pulled.

In reading his statement, specifically paragraph 3, to blame what happened on "the other guy," or the "striker fired gun," is weak and displays questionable character at best.

Also, regarding paragraph 4 and his safety practices...routinely instructing entire classes to point their handguns at him and dryfire, "so they know what it feels like," seems to contradict.

Edited May 20, 2011 by TN-popo

[TN-popo]

i have known buford tune for over 30 years as he said accidents happen .i dont know what happened but for his email with that said i can think of no other person better that buford to take my back if you can back it up it aint bragging

What the hell are you talking about? Back what up? Giving someone the finger...literally?

Edited May 20, 2011 by TN-popo

[Guest Spurhunter]

I am going with the pulling the trigger theory.

The reason is it doesn't take much to get a gun out of battery. And if out of battery the gun shouldn't fire. Even if it did fire out of battery the barrel would have moved down and out of the way of the firing pin before the slide moved very far. Takes very little to get to a point where the primer will not be struck.

I bet he went to clear it but pulled the trigger when getting a good grip on the gun. The only way you could convince me otherwise is a scanned copy of the letter from the gun's maker stating there was a problem with the gun.

Dolomite

Yup, what he says.

[bigwakes]

I am going with the pulling the trigger theory.

The reason is it doesn't take much to get a gun out of battery. And if out of battery the gun shouldn't fire. Even if it did fire out of battery the barrel would have moved down and out of the way of the firing pin before the slide moved very far. Takes very little to get to a point where the primer will not be struck.

I bet he went to clear it but pulled the trigger when getting a good grip on the gun. The only way you could convince me otherwise is a scanned copy of the letter from the gun's maker stating there was a problem with the gun.

Dolomite

I had a pistol with a worn spring that was hitting light off center strikes to the primer. It was out of battery just enough that the pin would hit 1/32 of an inch high. But it was out of battery enough to cause the round not to go off. It was so little that I never noticed what was happening until I called the manufacturer and they sent me a new sprng. Something tells me he was disassembling a pistol and pulled the trigger to take the gun down without racking the slide. One thing is for certain......HE PULLED THE TRIGGER!

[Guest Spurhunter]

I had a pistol with a worn spring that was hitting light off center strikes to the primer. It was out of battery just enough that the pin would hit 1/32 of an inch high. But it was out of battery enough to cause the round not to go off. It was so little that I never noticed what was happening until I called the manufacturer and they sent me a new sprng. Something tells me he was disassembling a pistol and pulled the trigger to take the gun down without racking the slide. One thing is for certain......HE PULLED THE TRIGGER!

Nah, he had a room full of witnesses, so he cant lie and say he was clearing it, if he was actually breaking it down. The bottom line that we all know is he pulled the trigger.

[MacGyver]

I loaded up my P99 with a new dummy round last night and tried umpteen ways from Friday to get it to fire out of battery. I routinely carry one that has more than 5000 rounds through it. If it might fire out of battery, I might like to know about it.

Mechanical stuff can break, but I sure couldn't replicate it. The only way my weapon fires is when the trigger is pulled. That said, the P99 is different from many striker fired weapons in that the slide does not have to cycle to charge the striker. You can use the decocker to unload the striker, and then decide you want to pull the trigger. You'll have a heavier trigger pull, but one pull of the trigger results in one instance of the the striker firing- whether you've previously racked it or not.

[mikegideon]

I loaded up my P99 with a new dummy round last night and tried umpteen ways from Friday to get it to fire out of battery. I routinely carry one that has more than 5000 rounds through it. If it might fire out of battery, I might like to know about it.

Mechanical stuff can break, but I sure couldn't replicate it. The only way my weapon fires is when the trigger is pulled. That said, the P99 is different from many striker fired weapons in that the slide does not have to cycle to charge the striker. You can use the decocker to unload the striker, and then decide you want to pull the trigger. You'll have a heavier trigger pull, but one pull of the trigger results in one instance of the the striker firing- whether you've previously racked it or not.

Does it have the typical plunger type striker block like a Glock?

[Guest Spurhunter]

I loaded up my P99 with a new dummy round last night and tried umpteen ways from Friday to get it to fire out of battery. I routinely carry one that has more than 5000 rounds through it. If it might fire out of battery, I might like to know about it.

Mechanical stuff can break, but I sure couldn't replicate it. The only way my weapon fires is when the trigger is pulled. That said, the P99 is different from many striker fired weapons in that the slide does not have to cycle to charge the striker. You can use the decocker to unload the striker, and then decide you want to pull the trigger. You'll have a heavier trigger pull, but one pull of the trigger results in one instance of the the striker firing- whether you've previously racked it or not.

Proof is in the pudding boys......

[MacGyver]

Does it have the typical plunger type striker block like a Glock?

Yeah, standard contemporary firing pin block.

[MacGyver]

And, a feature I've always like on the pistol is that field stripping a P99 does not require you to pull the trigger. You only need to depress the decocker.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

IYou can use the decocker to unload the striker, and then decide you want to pull the trigger. You'll have a heavier trigger pull, but one pull of the trigger results in one instance of the the striker firing- whether you've previously racked it or not.

Questions hopefully not too much thread drift--

1. Is it unusual to have a decocker on a striker pistol, or do other striker pistols have decockers?

2. When I got the Kahr P9 was surprised that if you pull the trigger and it fails to fire, you have to rack the slide to half-cock the striker and fire again. Of course that is the same on a single-action hammer pistol too, unless you had time to cock the hammer and give the round a second chance.

Are most striker pistols like that? That you have to work the slide to half-cock, rather than just pulling the trigger twice if the first time doesn't go bang?

[MacGyver]

Questions hopefully not too much thread drift--

1. Is it unusual to have a decocker on a striker pistol, or do other striker pistols have decockers?

2. When I got the Kahr P9 was surprised that if you pull the trigger and it fails to fire, you have to rack the slide to half-cock the striker and fire again. Of course that is the same on a single-action hammer pistol too, unless you had time to cock the hammer and give the round a second chance.

Are most striker pistols like that? That you have to work the slide to half-cock, rather than just pulling the trigger twice if the first time doesn't go bang?

There aren't a lot of striker fired guns with decockers that I can think of - maybe some of the Taurus 24/7 line. I'm sure there are others, I'll have to think about it. I'm sure someone else will chime in.

The ability to do multiple strikes without racking the slide isn't that common. I think you can do it with the some of the XD series weapons, and maybe a few Tauruses. I like the feature, but don't train using it. Since I carry other weapons that don't have the functionality, my malfunction clearance drills don't include an extra pull of the trigger - I go straight to a tap, rack, bang.

Edited May 20, 2011 by MacGyver

[mikegideon]

There aren't a lot of striker fired guns with decockers that I can think of - maybe some of the Taurus 24/7 line. I'm sure there are others, I'll have to think about it. I'm sure someone else will chime in.

The ability to do multiple strikes without racking the slide isn't that common. I think you can do it with the M&P series weapons. I like the feature, but don't train using it. Since I carry other weapons that don't have the functionality, my malfunction clearance drills don't include an extra pull of the trigger - I go straight to a tap, rack, bang.

Nope. M&P isn't multiple strike. It has to be cocked.

[MacGyver]

Nope. M&P isn't multiple strike. It has to be cocked.

That's what I get for typing while I was on the phone. I meant XD and typed M&P. Though I think it's only a couple of the XDs. Corrected above.

Edited May 20, 2011 by MacGyver

[Dolomite_supafly]

24/7's do have a second strike like a true double action. Or at least some of them do. Mine is a 24/7 OSS DS which is SA/DA like a tradition pistol. I can decock it to go from SA to DA but after firing it goes into SA mode.

I really like the pistol other than the fact the trigger doesn't stay in the rear position in SA mode. You still have a long take up but it is extremely light. Even DA is extremely light. You can pull the trigger rearward, apply the safety and the trigger will stay back but if you release the safety it will move to the forward position.

Dolomite