Gun City Incident

[dralarms]

The more I think about this dufus, the more I want to take his class. I got plenty of ole m-80's left. I could wait until someone is "pulling the trigger" and drop one behind him, of course then he would probably drop a load of his own.

[Guest Gert B Frobe]

I wasnt aware BT was "teaching" at Gun City. Seems like a match made in heaven

He isn't teaching at Gun City, he is only using their range. The morning of the range, you meet at his school, he has you bring your firearm up to the front of the class, he picks it up and reads the type and serial number to his assistant, who, thank God, was obviously not in the same position the day of the incident as she was the day I was there. She sat right next to him, and he covered her with every single gun brought to the front. But the one thing that screamed on that day was the Glocks that were brought to the front. Every one, he half racked the slide, trying to make the striker to remain forward and then after 3 or 4 half-racks, the striker was forward, he would show the student how "firing out of battery happens." It was all I could do to keep my mouth shut and not say that you would have had either a FTC or FTE. He did not check the chamber of my firearm when he picked it up.

But he was on a mission to prove every plastic, striker fired handgun, was a problem that day. I wish there was other security schools in the area that would teach the same packages that he has.

And, I also wish the Security Companies that insist on being APPS trained, would take this as a reason to reconsider their stance. Had the email said, I, along with the student made several mistakes, I could forgive his "incident," but it is a wonder that his assistant didn't get shot that day.

Gert

[Guest Spurhunter]

Gert, your post just makes me angry all the way around! This guy is a tool!!!!!!!

[Armed Aviator]

The more I think about this dufus, the more I want to take his class. I got plenty of ole m-80's left. I could wait until someone is "pulling the trigger" and drop one behind him, of course then he would probably drop a load of his own.

[GuardianDevil001]

It's only a matter of time:

[TN-popo]

It's only a matter of time:

Now that was all full of AWESOME!

[Guest Spurhunter]

OMG....the plot thickens. I just got this email from a friend.

From: APPS [mailto:appstraining@bellsouth.net]

Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 5:31 PM

To: APPS

Subject: RETIRED LAW ENFORCEEMTN CLASSES

PASS THIS AROUND!!! PLEASE!

APPS HAS BEEN APPROVED TO CONDUCT THE P.O.S.T. LEOSA CLASSES FOR RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER IN TENNESSEE. PLEASE READ BELOW FOR INSTRUCTIONS AS TO HOW TO ATTEND THE CLASS TO RECEIVE YOUR NATIONAL CARRY IN ALL STATES AND POSSESSIONS OF THE U.S.A.

THE CLASS DATE WILL BE ANNOUNCED WHEN WE HAVE ENOUGHT RETIRED OFFICERS WHO WISH TO TAKE THE CLASS! PLEASE CONTACT US SO WE CAN PLACE YOU ON THE LIST FOR THE NEXT AVAILABLE CLASS!

LEOSA CLASS for Retired Officers

You can now acquire your LEOSA card through the Tennessee POST commission if you desire. This will allow you to carry a CONCEALED weapon in all states and U. S. possessions.

Buford Tune a Retired Metro Nashville Officer has been certified by POST to conduct these classes. You must be pre registered to attend!!

Class Location: Academy of Personal Protection and Security www.appstraining.com

336 Hill Ave. Suite 102, Nashville, Tennessee 37210

Contact Information: 6153606002, email appstraining@bellsouth.net teresa_apps@bellsouth.net

Class Date: To be Announced

Class times: 8:00 a.m. to 5:30 p.m.

Class Cost: $50.00 (plus ammo if needed)

Applying officers MUST contact the POST Commission (see below) to obtain packet with necessary required forms. These forms MUST be brought to class when you attend. A letter from your agency showing years of service (must have minimum of ten years of service) is also required to validate years of service and that you retired in good standing. You will need a copy of your retired ID and a copy of your Armed Officer Certification or Tennessee Hand Gun Permit.

You need to also understand that you are restricted to carry ONLY the handgun(s) you qualify with (up to three)! THIS LAW IS STRICTLY CONCEALED NO OPEN CARRY!

After the classroom session we will proceed to the firing range for qualification. Officer must provide ammunition for your weapon(s). Ammunition CANNOT be reloads or remanufactured, must be Quality Ammo. A box of 50 per weapon is required.

APPS also teaches Tennessee Handgun Permit Classes, Tennessee Armed Guard and Handgun Carry classes. APPS is also a firearms dealer and can help you with purchasing your next firearm.

POST COMMISSION

3025 Lebanon Rd, Nashville TN 37214

Phone 6157414461

E mail Address: TINA.HERRING@TN.GOV

[Guest dthurston]

"APPS is owned and operated by J. Buford Tune"

I think this says it all...

[TGO David]

That particular email asks that it be passed around, but I would advise you all to be careful about copying here anything that is sent out via APPS that does not specifically state that it can be retransmitted. Nothing has occurred to cause me to state this, but I can easily envision someone being unhappy about the contents of an email being pasted on this or any other forum and then requiring the text to be taken down.

Just keep that in mind.

[Guest Spurhunter]

Point well taken David. Since this one actually asked for it to be passed around, I thought I would oblige....figure ol Buford may need all the biz he can get.

[Guest friesepferd]

ya. id say its fine considering 1) it says to pass it around and 2) its email. Do you really send any email without the realization that it can very easily end up on some forum or funny site somewhere?

[Dolomite_supafly]

He isn't teaching at Gun City, he is only using their range. The morning of the range, you meet at his school, he has you bring your firearm up to the front of the class, he picks it up and reads the type and serial number to his assistant, who, thank God, was obviously not in the same position the day of the incident as she was the day I was there. She sat right next to him, and he covered her with every single gun brought to the front. But the one thing that screamed on that day was the Glocks that were brought to the front. Every one, he half racked the slide, trying to make the striker to remain forward and then after 3 or 4 half-racks, the striker was forward, he would show the student how "firing out of battery happens." It was all I could do to keep my mouth shut and not say that you would have had either a FTC or FTE. He did not check the chamber of my firearm when he picked it up.

But he was on a mission to prove every plastic, striker fired handgun, was a problem that day. I wish there was other security schools in the area that would teach the same packages that he has.

And, I also wish the Security Companies that insist on being APPS trained, would take this as a reason to reconsider their stance. Had the email said, I, along with the student made several mistakes, I could forgive his "incident," but it is a wonder that his assistant didn't get shot that day.

Gert

Is there a requirement for the serial number and type of firearm be recorded?

I didn't think so and if there is then for that reason alone I would use a rental.

Dolomite

[Guest Spurhunter]

I have not heard of oen before. I took my HCP class at the COunty Sheriff offered class, and taught by all LEO's. They grabbed your gun as you walked in the door, literally, to clear it, then hand it back to you. I would think if it was required to record a serial number, they woul dhave done it, bt they didnt record mine for sure.

[VERO1]

Hey! How dare you question "Ol Nine and a Half Fingers" class procedures?

[Guest Spurhunter]

See....my bad. I assumed he only had 9 fingers. 9 and a half is waaaaaaay different.

[TN-popo]

There was a brief period of time when TDOS tried to require the student's serial # (2009, IIRC).

Schools/Instructors pitched a bitch about it (rightly so) and TDOS dropped the requirement pretty quick.

[Ebow1]

Hey look, someone made a song about the incident.

[Oh Shoot]

There was a brief period of time when TDOS tried to require the student's serial # (2009, IIRC).

Schools/Instructors pitched a bitch about it (rightly so) and TDOS dropped the requirement pretty quick.

I don't think it was brief. Think that was simply the way it was for many years until changed in late 2009 or so.

They recorded ours in 2008, and the class form was a much re-xeroxed one.

Also, on my official TN state form of course completion from 6/08, it lists Manufacturer, model and caliber, but not serial #. Those fields are printed on the official state issued form, to make it clear.

Of course, from everything I've read and heard, makes perfect sense Buford would still be doing it.

- OS

[TN-popo]

There was a brief period of time when TDOS tried to require the student's serial # (2009, IIRC).

Schools/Instructors pitched a bitch about it (rightly so) and TDOS dropped the requirement pretty quick.

I don't think it was brief. Think that was simply the way it was for many years until changed in late 2009 or so.

They recorded ours in 2008, and the class form was a much re-xeroxed one.

Also, on my official TN state form of course completion from 6/08, it lists Manufacturer, model and caliber, but not serial #. Those fields are printed on the official state issued form, to make it clear.

Of course, from everything I've read and heard, makes perfect sense Buford would still be doing it.

- OS

Nope.

I taught HCP classes from 2007-2010.

Did some checking...it was late 2008/early 2009 when the State attempted to get us to collect serial numbers. Before that, all we were required to get was Make/Model/Caliber.

In fact, they rescinded it so fast, that by the time we had our next monthly class we never did have to collect any serial numbers.

Here's an old thread...

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/2nd-amendment-issues/15190-handgun-carry-permit-class-information.html

See post #1 vs post #56.

Edited June 2, 2011 by TN-popo

[Oh Shoot]

Nope.

I taught HCP classes from 2007-2010.

Did some checking...it was late 2008/early 2009 when the State attempted to get us to collect serial numbers. Before that, all we were required to get was Make/Model/Caliber.

In fact, they rescinded it so fast, that by the time we had our next monthly class we never did have to collect any serial numbers.

Here's an old thread...

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/2nd-amendment-issues/15190-handgun-carry-permit-class-information.html

See post #1 vs post #56.

Ah, okay.

Makes sense, as only thing on state form is Make/Model/Caliber. I presume that's still on there, or did that get changed too?

Coal Creek took down serial number 6/7/08; it was their form, not the state one, that I described as looking much re-xeroxed just to be clear.

Anyway, seems I was clearly wrong about the duration of the serial number thing, thanks for clarification.

- OS

Edited June 2, 2011 by OhShoot

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Btw... they ask for serial numbers back in 94-95 as well. Thats was back before the State actually took it over. I remember we had to keep that stuff on file and in some cases confirm it with the students CLEO before they would issue the permit. Sooo glad those days are over!!!

[Guest db99wj]

Did the student make a mistake? Looks like it.

However, ultimately, gun safety lies with the current handler of the gun.

Also, unless seriously defective (highly doubtful), that pistol is not going to fire unless the trigger is pulled.

In reading his statement, specifically paragraph 3, to blame what happened on "the other guy," or the "striker fired gun," is weak and displays questionable character at best.

Also, regarding paragraph 4 and his safety practices...routinely instructing entire classes to point their handguns at him and dryfire, "so they know what it feels like," seems to contradict.

This.

[Guest Spurhunter]

I still say he should be charged with the crime of studipity...

[Guest Spurhunter]

So did the goon heal up, or???