Kahr CM9 - One, maybe two rounds and malfunction

[D3vo]

I purchased my Kahr CM9 last month and ran the first 200 rounds with only three malfunctions.

All outings since I can’t run a six round magazine without a nose dive jam (round is wedged just below the feed ramp at a downward angle). The nose dive jam always occurs on the second or third round.

Before I go on let me tell you the first round is chambered per Kahr specification.

Friday I called Kahr to discuss the problem. I described it the same way as above. The Kahr representative asked if I was the first owner and my name and address (no serial number). He said they would send me a new recoil spring.

Yesterday (Sunday) I had the opportunity to shoot the CM9 using MonkeyLizard’s PM9 magazine. You see I initially thought the problem might be the magazine, but the CM9 jammed the same way with the PM9 magazine.

We took the guns over to my house to clean and noticed on visual inspection the CM9 recoil spring was ½ to 1 inch longer (I should have gotten the tape measure, but I didn’t).

I did question how I got through the first 200 rounds with only three malfunctions. All I can tell you is that day all 200 rounds where Federal Champion purchased at Wal-Mart. All other outings were either WWB or USA Ammo reloads.

** There is another thread discussing USA Ammo. This ammo has nothing to do with the issue. It has performed in other 9mm handguns. I would purchase it again. **

[Raoul]

Just because the USA ammo has worked in other guns doesn't mean it couldn't be an issue. Why don't you try the Federal again. Some guns can be picky about ammo until they are broken in. My P22 is a testimony to that.

Did you prep your Kahr?

If not take a look here for some tips'

Proper prep of a new kahr - KahrTalk Forums

And you may want to take your mag apart just to be sure the follower is ok and that the spring is in correctly

[D3vo]

The Kahr was prepped and magazine disassembled, cleaned and checked.

The USA Ammo and WWB are consistent and the Federal is the odd man out. Next time out I will bring the Federal, but if the CM9 is that picky after 300 rounds I am a little concerned. The CM9 comes with a 5 year warranty. I am sure we can get this resolved by then.

I am interested to see if the recoil spring they are sending is the shorter version in the PM9.

[Erik88]

just when I thought that I would give the CM9 a chance you had to post this! I hate to hear this, I would try different ammo first and see what happens.

[Lumber_Jack]

I am interested to hear about the recoil spring. Mainly because Khar offered that as the first corrective action. Maybe they have knowlege of this problem already. Seems to me you have done the standard checks, mags, ammo, now springs. if that doesnt work, i'd be shippin it to Khar

[RWF]

it sounds like it could be you. i am sure you know that little guns are harder to shoot. my wife on one of first carry guns she had kel-tec 9mm double stack and the same thing would happen to her after a few shoots when there was room in the mag for the rounds to jump around.

on light loads she did not have any trouble.

be sure you have proper grip high as you can and not a cup and saucer.

can some else shoot it without issue? if the gun was new was there any factory lube left in the mags that could be gummed up?

good luck

[Guest rebeldrummer]

I snot mine with that cheap Tulammo from walmart....good, dirty steel cased and it ran fine? good luck with yours

[monkeylizard]

It's not D3vo's technique. I've fired his CM9 since the failures began (actually, they began while I was firing it*). I have had no problems from my PM9. I hold them both the same way. D3vo has also shot my PM9 w/o failure. Using WWB in my PM9 has been fine for both of us. It's a problem with his CM9. I don't think it's operator error at this point, though it's possible it's the ammo in his CM9, even though my PM9 likes the WWB just fine.

The recoil spring in his CM9 is longer. Like he said, we dind't measure it, but I'd say from my semi-decent memory that his has an extra 3 turns on the spring over mine.

*maybe I broke it

Edited May 16, 2011 by monkeylizard

[Raoul]

Sounds like you've done your due diligence. Let's hope the spring fixes it. Kahr's can be a PIA until they get broken in however. The same tight tolerances that make them a good gun can also cause you grief.

Keep us posted.

[Oh Shoot]

Does the CM have the same spring arrangement as the PM? Meaning, a long spring that goes over the shorter captured spring assembly?

If so, and y'all have probably done it, but make sure the closed end of the long spring is the one that goes onto the captured spring unit.

- OS

[D3vo]

Yes it is the same as the PM9. The closed loop is slipped onto the guide rod first.

[RWF]

D3vo, i want you to i meant nothing, it just sounds like the personal experinece that we went through.

i just do not understand i guess how the recoil spring is being a fault causing the rounds in the mag to nose dive. if is not technique then i would think the mags. like i said factory lube may have caught some trash or not allowing the follower travel smoothly.

[D3vo]

D3vo, i want you to i meant nothing, it just sounds like the personal experinece that we went through.

i just do not understand i guess how the recoil spring is being a fault causing the rounds in the mag to nose dive. if is not technique then i would think the mags. like i said factory lube may have caught some trash or not allowing the follower travel smoothly.

RWF, I took no offense.

I am trying to understand that too, but I have to follow the Kahr customer service playbook and exhaust all the options. " I think " the theory behind the recoil spring is the slide is not being thrust backward sufficiently and/or is closing the window of opportunity for the round to be chambered due to the tightness of the recoil spring.

I must say I have never come across a semi-automatic pistol this hard to rack.

[Raoul]

RWF, I took no offense.

I am trying to understand that too, but I have to follow the Kahr customer service playbook and exhaust all the options. " I think " the theory behind the recoil spring is the slide is not being thrust backward sufficiently and/or is closing the window of opportunity for the round to be chambered due to the tightness of the recoil spring.

I must say I have never come across a semi-automatic pistol this hard to rack.

Tight tolerances. Kahr does nor recommend that you rack any rounds until after break-in. With my PM-40 it was at least 500 rds before I could rack a round into the chamber without a problem.

[Oh Shoot]

Did you fire any +p rounds through it?

If they run okay, would indeed suggest the spring is too stiff for normal rounds.

I'll tell you a weird one ... Kahr made a slight modification to the PM9 barrel somewhere along the line, and there are actually two different guide rod/captured spring assemblies for them. Bronker got a new PM9 with the wrong one in there, it would shift and lock up slide.

But then, the CM9 is a new model, so one would think there would only be one possible spring/guide rod combo for it. But ya never know, I guess, if they are using same spring/guide rod assemblies as the PM9.

- OS

[D3vo]

Tight tolerances. Kahr does nor recommend that you rack any rounds until after break-in. With my PM-40 it was at least 500 rds before I could rack a round into the chamber without a problem.

So true. The racking I was doing was part of the preparing your Kahr. I wore gloves, watched TV and still earned myself a blister.

[D3vo]

Everybody likes photos!

[Oh Shoot]

As per my post above, that flat plate on the guide rod/spring assembly that goes against the barrel lug, looks to be the larger one, apparently what they went to on the PM9 after a barrel change. Mine is smaller, but that's the one that apparently should have been on Bronker's new PM9 but it came with the smaller one.

As far as main spring pic, yeah, my PM9 one is right at 2.25 inches long, significantly shorter than the one in your pic. Then again, maybe the CM9 is designed to use a longer one, I have no way to know.

- OS

Edited May 17, 2011 by OhShoot

[D3vo]

The CM9 is going back to Kahr today. I will post the resolution on it's return.

[Guest volman6073]

got the opportunity to put some rounds through my new CM9 over the weekend. Very impressive. Handles well and no real problems. Only put 70 rounds through with 1 failure to feed. I was concerned after reading this post earlier. Hopefully Kahr will make it right.

[D3vo]

The CM9 has been back for a while. The issue was duplicated and the firearm was returned with a polished feed ramp.

I took it to the range with 50 count boxes of Federal, Remington and WWB FMJ 9mm.

There was 1 failure per box for a 2% FTF rate. I have about 500 rounds through the CM9. To the Kahr experts; "Should I send it back to Kahr for additional work or is 2% what I can expect?"

[Guest motonut]

I've had my CW9 (yours is a CM I know) for about 3 months now, apx 4 - 500 rds of mostly WM Federal Champion ammo with some WWB thrown in for good measure. I've not had a single issue with the gun even during the 200 rnd. "break-in" period. The gun has performed flawlessly and I shoot it well (I'm no crack shot by any standard). In fact the gun has functioned so well I purchased a used PM9 last week from the guys at D&T. Took the PM9 to the range with a neighbor on Sat. and between the 2 of us put 100 rds without a single failure (again with WM Fed Champion ammo).

Personally I'm extreemly pleased with both guns. I'm sorry to read you're having issues with your CM.

[Oh Shoot]

The CM9 has been back for a while. The issue was duplicated and the firearm was returned with a polished feed ramp.

I took it to the range with 50 count boxes of Federal, Remington and WWB FMJ 9mm.

There was 1 failure per box for a 2% FTF rate. I have about 500 rounds through the CM9. To the Kahr experts; "Should I send it back to Kahr for additional work or is 2% what I can expect?"

That one out of 50: was it just in middle of a mag, or first upon loading a new one, or what?

If first round, are you using slide release to chamber first round? Keeping a good firm wrist on that little sucker?

I'd consider 1/50 as a repeating statistic too high for any carry gun.

- OS

Edited July 25, 2011 by OhShoot

[D3vo]

Good News... The CM9 returned from Kahr 14 days ago. I have had two opportunities to run 100 rounds each. I pronounce the CM9 healed.

Summary:

Two visits to Kahr to correct.

The first visit consisted of a polished feed ramp.

The second visit consisted of a polished slide stop and the slide stop spring was replaced.

Kahr was very patient and helpful during this process.

[Guest steve24]

That's good to hear. I have 120 rds through mine so far with no problems...