reliability question

[tercel89]

The 2 most reliable weapons I have and my friends have : Glock and CZ . I like them both . The CZ will make a bad shooter shoot good Both are super reliable .

[1gewehr]

If you don't have a .22, get that first. A Ruger, Browning, Beretta Neos, or similar is an excellent first pistol.

Here's a radical idea, though. While I love my CZ75s, the EAA Witness is a cheaper alternative that has an enviable reputation for durability and reliability. You can get a 9mm/.22 combo package that has both the 9mm pistol and a .22 conversion unit. This package should be under you $500 limit. Do NOT use aftermarket magazines with the Witness as they really suck. Factory mags are made by MecGar, and run about $25 each from EAA.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

If you don't have a .22, get that first. A Ruger, Browning, Beretta Neos, or similar is an excellent first pistol.

Here's a radical idea, though. While I love my CZ75s, the EAA Witness is a cheaper alternative that has an enviable reputation for durability and reliability. You can get a 9mm/.22 combo package that has both the 9mm pistol and a .22 conversion unit. This package should be under you $500 limit. Do NOT use aftermarket magazines with the Witness as they really suck. Factory mags are made by MecGar, and run about $25 each from EAA.

That is an excellent idea. I really like my CZ85C and really like it with the Kadet .22 slide as well. It costed a lot more than $500 to buy both pieces independently.

The Witnesses look good and get good reviews. Would like to try a 9mm Witness, but have only seen .40 cal witnesses in person.

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

I got XDm 9mm compact 3.8 to carry. I tried a Glock 19 Gen 4 & wasnt impressed at all. Thats just me tho. Millions of people carry Glocks & love 'em. Try out different guns then buy whats good for you personally.

[Jonnin]

That is an excellent idea. I really like my CZ85C and really like it with the Kadet .22 slide as well. It costed a lot more than $500 to buy both pieces independently.

The Witnesses look good and get good reviews. Would like to try a 9mm Witness, but have only seen .40 cal witnesses in person.

If you find yourself in chattanooga you can try mine.

Witness may as well be the company name, lol. It apparently is european for "gun" or something: EAA has listed some 20 distinct guns in a variety of calibers, sizes,actions, etc and every one of them is a "witness", including everything from a $400 gun to a $1500 single action competition one.

The gun is very new so I do not have meaningful data on it yet, plan to really shoot it a lot this weekend. I will toss up a bit of a review once I have something to say about it, so far it looks cool and the 5 or 10 shots I took with it felt nice, thats about all I can say lol.

[Caster]

Love my XD's. My oldest is an XD9. Bought it when they first came out, oh several moons ago. I've long lost round count, but I know if I tried to put them all in my Toyota FJ, it would probably damage the suspension. In all the rounds I have fired, I have replaced nothing [sights don't count] and not counting intentional dummies mixed in for stoppage drills, I have had zero failures. Yup, not one single hiccup. AND HEY, I only shoot ammo I cast and load myself and I had a batch of ammo that was leading real bad and i shot it up anyway. Close to 250 rounds of it and after, it looked like a gorilla took a dump in my barrel. No jams. I don't know enough fancy words to praise the XD enough.

[Oh Shoot]

Love my XD's. My oldest is an XD9. Bought it when they first came out, oh several moons ago. I've long lost round count, but I know if I tried to put them all in my Toyota FJ, it would probably damage the suspension. In all the rounds I have fired, I have replaced nothing [sights don't count] and not counting intentional dummies mixed in for stoppage drills, I have had zero failures. Yup, not one single hiccup. AND HEY, I only shoot ammo I cast and load myself and I had a batch of ammo that was leading real bad and i shot it up anyway. Close to 250 rounds of it and after, it looked like a gorilla took a dump in my barrel. No jams. I don't know enough fancy words to praise the XD enough.

I feel much the same. I have original XD subbie, service, and tactical, all in 9mm.

I tried everything to make the XD SC fail before started carrying it. Could NOT make it jam by limp wristing, ate everything I put in there, even holding it as loosely as possible without actually dropping it.

I did finally find something it didn't like though. I was mixing various rounds in same mag, and found that a Blazer aluminum case 115 gr following a 147 gr flat point (or vice versa, I disremember) would jam. Every time. It took a lot of experimentation to find that particular bizarre combo, though, and of course it's something only a nut like me would ever have done in the first place. Of course it ate either round perfectly if that was all that was in the mag.

- OS

Edited May 19, 2011 by OhShoot

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

I am impressed with the fact that it has not been that long ago that a thread like this would not have had as many, if any mentions of the Ruger SR series pistols. It seems that they have started to claim their share of the market, I was pretty sure that they would. They have certainly been well mentioned in this thread.

As DaveTN mentioned, not being American Made is a deal breaker for me so I do highly recommend either the SR9 or the SR9c as an American made, dependable and inexpensive carry and or range gun. I have both of them and have yet to have a single function failure from either of them. Either of them will also fit into your budget and leave you a few bucks for some accessories.

I think you would also really enjoy the grip width of these pistols. They are one of, if not the thinnest double stack grips out there.

If you ever get through Jackson shoot me a PM and I will be glad to let you shoot both of mine, our range is located only a block from the interstate and I am close by.

Also Luvmyberetta has an SR9 with a Viridan laser for sale here right now for a very fair price. If I had not recently had some significant unexpected expenditures I would be jumping right on his offer even though I already have an SR9. Since his is a different color configuration than mine it could be justified;), I do really wish I had the $$ at the moment.

The very best advice to shoot as many as you can before buying has already been given.

Good Luck to ya

[bluedog]

Thanks for all the responses.

My wife looked over my shoulder when i was watching a Hickok45 video and said "don't you already know as much as you can?" I said "no, now I have a long list to try. It'll cost $200 to rent 'em all." she said "well start this weekend!"

She's a keeper!

[BigK]

Not sure what their policy still is, but On Target in Murfreesboro was pretty fair last time I was there.

They rented you a pistol for the day for around $25 and if you wanted to trade it in to try another, you just had to buy a box of ammo from them.

Their ammo wasn't too high either (at least it's cheaper than gun store prices, but not cheap as WWB at Walmart). They use Atlanta Arms Ammo.

[bluedog]

I went to On Target about a month ago, and it was just almost $60 to try 2 guns (with their ammo). If I'm doing my math right, Guns & Leather is cheaper (and about the same distance from my house), so I'll probably head that way when I get some free time.

[Guest nicemac]

Smith and Wesson Revolver.

+1

[BigK]

I went to On Target about a month ago, and it was just almost $60 to try 2 guns (with their ammo). If I'm doing my math right, Guns & Leather is cheaper (and about the same distance from my house), so I'll probably head that way when I get some free time.

WOW! their prices have certainly changed in the last 5 years since I was there. Also, I did have an annual membership back then, so I may have gotten a discount.

Still, sounds kind of expensive to me. I'd be glad to meet you at the shooting range on Hobson Pike, if you want to try a CZ. All it'll cost you is your 9mm ammo and $5.50 to get in.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

There's a reason Glock out sales XD's and S&W's, Glock are better and easier to get parts for and you can get Glock mags for half the price of the other two. Save yourself some money and buy a Glock you wont be disappointed. Go to any gun broads that sale guns like ###.com and look how many people want to trade an XD for a Glock but not the other way around. List a Glock for sale and see how many XD owners will email you wanting to trade their XD for your Glock.I wonder why they do this if XD's are as good as Glocks? I have and cant tell you how many times it has happened. Glocks have better resale value then XD's and M&p's. Just my two cents on this.

[DaveTN]

There's a reason Glock out sales XD's and S&W's,

What makes you think Glock out sells M&P? I really don’t know. But a lot of Police Departments are switching to M&P; most of the members here I see make the comparison seem to choose the M&P. I’m sure Glock still has the largest LEO market share because they have had the market for 25 years. M&P is fairly new, but gaining ground quickly.

The civilian market has historically gone to whoever has the LEO market. But I think this time the positive acceptance of the M&P by the civilian market caused the LEO buyers to take a closer look. When they do it’s a done deal.

It would certainly be interesting to see the numbers of units sold, but I doubt we will see that.

[Guest bkelm18]

There's a reason Glock out sales XD's and S&W's, Glock are better and easier to get parts for and you can get Glock mags for half the price of the other two. Save yourself some money and buy a Glock you wont be disappointed. Go to any gun broads that sale guns like ###.com and look how many people want to trade an XD for a Glock but not the other way around. List a Glock for sale and see how many XD owners will email you wanting to trade their XD for your Glock.I wonder why they do this if XD's are as good as Glocks? I have and cant tell you how many times it has happened. Glocks have better resale value then XD's and M&p's. Just my two cents on this.

Definitely your opinion. How about he buys what suits him best.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

Definitely your opinion. How about he buys what suits him best.

Did he not ask our opinion? And to back up what I said about guys wanting to trade XD's for Glock's, this was just posted on ###.com about an hour after I made my post.

You must be a member to continue!

Edited May 20, 2011 by GLOCKGUY

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

M&P’s are made by Americans in America; Glock and XD’sare not. (If that’s important to you; it’s a deal breaker for me).

Some Glocks are made by Americans in America..

Edited May 20, 2011 by GLOCKGUY

[DaveTN]

Some Glocks are made by Americans in America..

No they aren’t. What you see there fulfills our Federal requirement that the name and location of the importer be on the gun. Where do you think the Mold Maker is that put that lettering in the mold? Doing some final assembly in GA doesn’t make it American Made.

HS Produkt, the Croatian company that makes the XD, has to put Springfield Armory, Genesco, Illinois on the side of theirs. But they also put a stamp in theirs to show it was made in Croatia. Didn’t work though. Some folks still want to claim they are SA’s.

Did you find anything out about your sales claim? I’m really curious now. I think the M&P might be out selling Glock by now.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

No they aren’t. What you see there fulfills our Federal requirement that the name and location of the importer be on the gun. Where do you think the Mold Maker is that put that lettering in the mold? Doing some final assembly in GA doesn’t make it American Made.

HS Produkt, the Croatian company that makes the XD, has to put Springfield Armory, Genesco, Illinois on the side of theirs. But they also put a stamp in theirs to show it was made in Croatia. Didn’t work though. Some folks still want to claim they are SA’s.

Did you find anything out about your sales claim? I’m really curious now. I think the M&P might be outselling Glock by now.

Glocks are currently being produced ("lock, stock and barrel") at the Factory in Smyrna GA. And they are building a new plant in Smyrna GA so they can start building more models... I doubt S&W are out selling Glocks, can you back up your claim?

Edited May 20, 2011 by GLOCKGUY

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

Here is a good read on S&W

The Dark Side of Smith & Wesson

[Reservoir Dog]

No they aren’t.

Actually, GLOCKGUY is correct. The facility in Smyrna, GA is making complete pistols manufactured on site. However, those pistols are made mainly for export to other countries. You will rarely (if ever) see one of these on the US market. Glocks on the US market are all imports from Austria.

Glock does this because some countries will not buy things made in Austria due to their involvement with the Nazis during WWII. Glock gets around this by making complete pistols in the US for export.

Notice the "Made in Austria" is missing from the pistol in the picture.

Edited May 20, 2011 by Reservoir Dog

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

DaveTN don't get me wrong if I had to buy either a S&W M&P or an XD I would buy a S&W without a doubt. What I dont like about XD's are the high bore axis and the 1911 style grip safeties on them.

This is why I dont like the 1911 style grip safeties on any handguns. Just understand that it can happen and if you have a gun with a 1911 style grip safeties you need to train for something like this to happen.

My CCW Shooting Encounter AAR--Sentence update on page 22 Whoooo Hoooo - AR15.COM

[Guest The Highlander]

Love my Glocks, but honestly my Ruger SR9 feels better to me. I carry the SR9, a SIG 220, a EMP 9mm, and some revolvers in rotation, but I always come right back to the Glock G17, and it is the centerfire I shoot the most.

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

No way I'd ever trade my XDm for a Glock lol :-)

Havent tried an M&P yet so I dunno about those.