Defeating A Vest

[Magiccarpetrides]

Rabbi you gotta think that if someone was daring enough to rob a gun store they would most definitely be wearing a vest. A CZ-52 might not be a bad idea considering how cheap and plentiful they are.

[dunndw]

..now I'm wondering if the mall ninjas wanting to carry the AR pistols aren't on to something.

I'll stick with two TAP 230 grain +P .45 hollowpoints to center mass...if they're still in the fight after taking those in the chest...I'll go for the legs and skull

[The Rabbi]

.45acp is a lousy penetrator, fat and slow moving. The hot 9mm is much more effective against armor.

If you are aiming a .45 at a guy with armor you ought to hope he is a bad shot.

[Guest tcampbell]

taurus the "judge"....410 to the nutz...45 to the head :-)

but since I don't have one yet..I use corbon 9mm +P 125 grain JHP's in my SA XD Sub compact 9

Edited February 26, 2008 by tcampbell
because my pencil messed up my spelling...

[Guest TN.Frank]

7.62x25mm will cut thru a IIIa like butter even in the standard Chineese loading(86grFMJ@1350fps) so just pick up a Tokarov or CZ-52 and have at it.

[Guest Mugster]

.45acp is a lousy penetrator, fat and slow moving. The hot 9mm is much more effective against armor.

If you are aiming a .45 at a guy with armor you ought to hope he is a bad shot.

Offhand I tend to agree.

Although ACP ball or hardcast semi-wadcutters might do it if you get the velocity up high enough, I really don't know. I do know they'll go though alot of gellatin.

[analog_kidd]

I just carry a Phased Plasma Rifle in the 40-Watt range

[Guest SUNTZU]

If its in your shop, spray them with a fire extinguisher, then become Lord of the Dance on their prone body/bodies. Oh, and call 911.

[Im Neero]

Mozambique. I suppose it could happen, but by the time you factor in the miniscule odds of me being in an armed confrontation, even smaller odds of me having to shoot, and much smaller odds beyond that of the assailant wearing body armor, I will probably continue to carry my .45.

If I owned a gun store, however, I would probably keep a 9mm or perhaps .357 sig handy, as I'm sure that increases the chances of serious armed confrontation against a prepared opponent drastically.

[DMark]

.... loading the 3rd or 4th round with +P ball should yield good results.....

At one time this was common and was called "stacking."

When the early hollowpoints came out alot of folks would load FMJ as the last few rounds in the mag. Then if the need to go through doors and such was needed you just fired to slide lock.

I still know some old school LEOs who carry an extra mag of ball ammo just in case their new-tech wonder HPs can't get the job done.

I also agree that a pelvis shot is very effective since it provides the load bearing structure of the body.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Yeah but who the heck has time to aim for the pelvis when facing a loaded gun? I tend to think everyone but the most combat hardened(real world, not paintball, airsoft, or civil war re-enactors) would just point and shoot. The most likely point of aim would be dead center.

[Sheepdog]

Some years ago, I read an article stating that Glaser Safety Slugs were effective at shredding Kevlar body armor. They wouldn't penetrate intact body armor, but would make it far less effective against followup hardball or hollowpoint rounds.

Not that this would be practical in a gunfight, unless you're able to put two or three rounds into the same 4" on a moving target while dodging return fire.

[DMark]

.... who the heck has time to aim for the pelvis.... but the most combat hardened....

Who also tend to be well trained.

Twice in my limited experience I have witness hits to the pelvis. Each time the hit resulted in the person falling quickly to the ground and out of the fight. I have no idea if the shooter was aiming for the pelvis but hits there appeared to be very effective.

Important to note that both of those hits where with rifles.

[Guest jackdog]

Pelvis nuts head all seem to be pretty good ideas. Head shots are not as easy as you may think. Great on paper targets but a moving bg with a gun is not paper. Hope no one here has to test this for real.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Sawed off shotgun anybody? Head, chest, pelvis, arms, legs, pretty much anything in front of the barrel and under 10yds ;-D

[PackinMama]

I don't know much about penetrating a bullet proof vest or body armor......But wouldn't a good center mass hit (or two) with just about any caliber over say 9mm at least knock the BG down long enough to get a good aim at either his head or pelvis?

[BigPoppa]

PELVIC SADDLE

1) Compared to a head shot, the pelvic area will generally present a larger, slower moving, less "dodgy" target.

2) A hit on the big femoral artery will give you a good, fairly sudden drop in blood pressure.

3) Pelvic saddle is "Times Square" where a lot of different weight bearing bone systems come together. A good hit in this area should result in the BG losing most, if not all, of his mobility.

4) In all seriousness, to a male assailant, a gunshot wound in or near the genital region would be a major psychological, if not physiological, fight stopper. In most males, a shot to the twig and berries will immediately and drastically sap the will to fight. Not the wound itself, but what it represents.

PELVIC SADDLE

[SkWaShDeM]

I don't know much about penetrating a bullet proof vest or body armor......But wouldn't a good center mass hit (or two) with just about any caliber over say 9mm at least knock the BG down long enough to get a good aim at either his head or pelvis?

More than likely not. Two center mass hits to a non-vest wearing assailant won't always knock him down right away. Simple inertia, will power, and a few other factors will continue to drive somebody forward even after being shot.

Of the 8 or 9 gunshot wound victims I remember from the three years I worked in the emergency room, four of them walked in under the own power. Guess what? All four had been shot in the chest or abdomen up to half an hour before showing up at our door.

[Guest Grout]

Whack'em in the knees.

[Im Neero]

I don't know much about penetrating a bullet proof vest or body armor......But wouldn't a good center mass hit (or two) with just about any caliber over say 9mm at least knock the BG down long enough to get a good aim at either his head or pelvis?

Depends how much over 9mm we're talking about.

[SkWaShDeM]

Depends how much over 9mm we're talking about.

Just make sure you get a video yourself shooting that puppy offhand indoors. The rest of us would like to watch from the safety of the Internet.

[Im Neero]

Sure thing. As soon as I am confronted with a bunch of body armor clad assailants that I intend on knocking down, I'll get right on it.

[Guest canynracer]

[Guest db99wj]

PELVIC SADDLE

1) Compared to a head shot, the pelvic area will generally present a larger, slower moving, less "dodgy" target.

2) A hit on the big femoral artery will give you a good, fairly sudden drop in blood pressure.

3) Pelvic saddle is "Times Square" where a lot of different weight bearing bone systems come together. A good hit in this area should result in the BG losing most, if not all, of his mobility.

4) In all seriousness, to a male assailant, a gunshot wound in or near the genital region would be a major psychological, if not physiological, fight stopper. In most males, a shot to the twig and berries will immediately and drastically sap the will to fight. Not the wound itself, but what it represents.

PELVIC SADDLE

This thread is making me uncomfortable just by reading all this!

[Guest TN.Frank]

Dudes, I've already given you the answer, the 7.62x25mm in a TT-33 or CZ-52 pistol. It'll punch thru a IIIa vest. What more do ya' need,LOL.